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Author
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Topic: Haggard Scandal
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 68 of 302 (361327)
11-03-2006 10:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 64 by nator
11-03-2006 10:17 PM
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Jesus?
Today Jesus would likely be a Taoist and certainly would have nothing to do with the Fundie or Evangelical folk. He sure in hell wouldn't be a conservative as they exist today.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 64 by nator, posted 11-03-2006 10:17 PM | | nator has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 87 by tsig, posted 11-04-2006 6:47 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 97 of 302 (361445)
11-04-2006 10:49 AM
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Reply to: Message 87 by tsig
11-04-2006 6:47 AM
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Re: Jesus?
Heading off topic, but I would know by looking at what Jesus did and said and comparing it to the Taoist principles. One of the major influences on my personal beliefs was when introduced to the Eastern religions back in grade school. The almost one for one correspondence between the Taoist principles and Jesus was striking then, and has continued to influence me right through until today. A thread on that might even be worthwhile.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 87 by tsig, posted 11-04-2006 6:47 AM | | tsig has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 98 of 302 (361446)
11-04-2006 10:55 AM
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Reply to: Message 92 by Silent H
11-04-2006 9:43 AM
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Re: nemesis_juggernaut's moral standard refuted by Haggard ... et al
They want laws against things not because they themselves would never do so, but because their legality makes such things more likely to be engaged in. In the case of Haggard for example if homosexuality were illegal, maybe he wouldn't have tried it, and if he did he'd be facing a lot more problems. Meth is legal? It seems that your assumption that they want laws as a preventive measure doesn't stand up. Meth is illegal, even in Denver.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 92 by Silent H, posted 11-04-2006 9:43 AM | | Silent H has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 103 of 302 (361454)
11-04-2006 11:39 AM
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Reply to: Message 101 by Silent H
11-04-2006 11:31 AM
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Televangelist = Hypocrite with small margin of error.
I didn't say their argument had validity, I said that's what they want. They continually claim executions are a deterrent despite the fact that murders (including by Xians) continue. Then we are not all that far apart. I read you as saying he would be less likely to do something if it were illegal. If all you mean is that he might claim that as a fact for others while ignoring it for his personal behavior, in other words, normal evangelical and fundamentalist hypocrisy, I would agree.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 101 by Silent H, posted 11-04-2006 11:31 AM | | Silent H has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 128 of 302 (361517)
11-04-2006 2:17 PM
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Reply to: Message 127 by Silent H
11-04-2006 2:11 PM
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on absolute morals
But even if I wanted to accept your argument, I could simply change my point to be that no absolute morality has been identified or can be known by humans at this time. At least so far not one of those who say there are moral absolutes has been able to provide an example of such a critter.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 127 by Silent H, posted 11-04-2006 2:11 PM | | Silent H has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Drugs
I can see how Robertson fits in that criteria, but I've never really understood why Dobson is so despised by the irreligious. Dobson is a joke to the religious as well. He is an embarrassment to Christianity.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Mainly just a bigot
Focus on the Family. A most frightening organization.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 161 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-04-2006 10:33 PM | | Hyroglyphx has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 183 by iceage, posted 11-05-2006 1:39 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 186 of 302 (361761)
11-05-2006 1:46 AM
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Reply to: Message 183 by iceage
11-05-2006 1:39 AM
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Re: Mainly just a bigot
Well, his organization, Focus on the Family is one of the biggest groups pushing the anti-gay legislation efforts. In addition it has expanded into every conceivable market to con the gullible out of money from printing companies to marketing home school material, all with a pro-ignorance bias. He is another bastion of hypocrisies.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 183 by iceage, posted 11-05-2006 1:39 AM | | iceage has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 189 by iceage, posted 11-05-2006 2:04 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 192 of 302 (361771)
11-05-2006 2:20 AM
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Reply to: Message 189 by iceage
11-05-2006 2:04 AM
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Re: Mainly just a bigot
To be a hypocrite requires difference between spouted belief and actions. It appears (i remain hesitant to judge not knowing the full details) that the subject person Haggard is a hypocrite. Frankly, I think way too much is being made over Haggards supposed fall. I happen to think that if he bought meth for recreation, personal use, he was stupid, and should be charged with whatever penalty there is for meth possession, and since there seems to be no evidence other than allegations, probably thrown out of court. As to the charges of the gay relationship, I think he should step up if it is true, or deny it if false. BUT... I see absolutely no reason for him to step down from any of his positions or for his churches to sanction him.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 189 by iceage, posted 11-05-2006 2:04 AM | | iceage has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 195 by tsig, posted 11-05-2006 5:07 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 206 of 302 (361816)
11-05-2006 11:35 AM
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Reply to: Message 195 by tsig
11-05-2006 5:07 AM
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on honesty
other than the fact that he had been preaching the exact opposite of what he had been doing? Well, that is pretty much understandable and the norm when it comes to the Evangelical, Fundamentalist, Biblical Creationist camp. They compartmentalize and separate reality from what they believe. This is what they do all the time with the Bible, where they do amazing mental gymnastics to get around the obvious contradictions, where they play mental games so that they can believe prophecy, when the claim a young earth or that there is evidence of a world wide flood. They compartmentalize and can go forever without testing beliefs against reality. So why get upset at Haggard? Sure, the reality might be that he used dope and was homosexual. But the evangelicals thrive on denying reality. Every time they claim there was that flood or a six-day creation or young earth or the Exodus they are denying reality. Why not just add these (if they are true and we still do not know if that is the case) to the list of "denies".
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 195 by tsig, posted 11-05-2006 5:07 AM | | tsig has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 242 by tsig, posted 11-05-2006 4:04 PM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 272 of 302 (361999)
11-05-2006 7:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 261 by tudwell
11-05-2006 6:34 PM
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Very Glad to see you seem to understand Matt 25
Reading the story of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25 makes it pretty clear that those who end up being rejected were very likely what would today be Christians, while the sheep were likely NOT followers of Jesus. It is significant that the issue of belief is only brought up indirectly. The sheep are surprised to be selected. They go so far as to say, "Are you sure you are talking about us? We never did anything for you." They are surprised because they knew that they had never done anything for Jesus, never helped him, never fed him. The others are equally surprised they were rejected. They too question. They ask, "Whoa there boss. When didn't we do something for you? If we had known you were hungry we would have fed you." The message is simple. We can do nothing for GOD or for Jesus. All we can do is try to do what is right. It doesn't matter if you believe, if you worship, if you praise. Just try to do what is right. It really is that simple. Haggard, if he has a fault, forgot the message.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 261 by tudwell, posted 11-05-2006 6:34 PM | | tudwell has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 281 of 302 (362048)
11-05-2006 11:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 280 by tsig
11-05-2006 10:58 PM
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What's in an H?
No he just bent over a page to rember where he was. Gotta keep your "H"s straight. It was Hassert that bent over a page.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 280 by tsig, posted 11-05-2006 10:58 PM | | tsig has not replied |
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