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Author Topic:   internet porn reduces rape
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 16 of 63 (361805)
11-05-2006 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Zawi
11-05-2006 6:22 AM


no. read the paper. the effect lasts until the next day. in other words. instead of committign a violent offence, they go out to the movies and then go home to bed like the rest of us.

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Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 17 of 63 (361863)
11-05-2006 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by subbie
11-04-2006 6:10 PM


I'm not saying that this is the case, I'm simply saying it's not self-evident that more openness toward pornography in general causes a lower sex crime rate.
I agree. On the other hand, I think it does show that high availability of porn does not contribute towards increased rate of sex attacks.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the bug and some days you'll be the windscreen."

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Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 18 of 63 (361872)
11-05-2006 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by nator
11-04-2006 9:51 PM


You are forgetting that a great deal of rape is motivated by a desire to have power over another person and to degrade and humiliate them.
A good deal, that's true. But not all of it. Why can't people accept the fact that some men rape because of sheer sexual frustration. How many times have we read of rapists who lived all their lives with their parents and never had a girlfriend until one day they snap and start stalking the local Hooters girl ?
One of the links supplied by brennakimi in the OP supports the theory that rape is not always about power, but somtimes just about sex. IMHO anything that can act as a sexual release valve for some people, while not harming anyone else, is a good thing.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the bug and some days you'll be the windscreen."

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Replies to this message:
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AnswersInGenitals
Member (Idle past 151 days)
Posts: 673
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 19 of 63 (361895)
11-05-2006 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Legend
11-05-2006 2:32 PM


IMHO anything that can act as a sexual release valve for some people, while not harming anyone else, is a good thing.
This was also Jocelyn Elders' humble opinion, but it got her fired. She was Clinton's surgeon general until she recommended that high school boys try masturbation instead of impregnating high school girls, but the religious right, who understand these things better than the rest of us, raised such a stink that Clinton fired her. One of his few cowardly acts. So my question is: Why do so many religions and societies frown upon, discourage, outlaw, or even criminalize masturbation when it is known to be such a health activity, not only for the individual doing it, but for society as a whole when it suffers fewer unwanted pregnancies and rape?
I can understand why there are such strong proscriptions against marital infidelity, given that child rearing is such a labor intense enterprise. But why against masturbation, which is healthy, universal, and harms no one? Do any almanacs list masturbation indices for various countries so that we can compare them to sexual and violent crime rates? Did Ted Haggard ever participate in a circle jerk? (Or does he insist that he just watched?) One would think that society would strongly encourage masturbation, even have whackathons for jesus and things like that. (See! Even my spell checker doesn't recognize 'whackathon'.)
As long as we're on the topic, why if you are right handed does masturbating with your left hand seem so awkward? Its really the simplest of actions. 1)Close fist. 2)Pump. Its not like your playing harmony on the piano or fingering a riff of battling banjos. Know of any research in this area? I'm sure that if we try, we can find an evolution vs. creationism tie in to all this.
Regards, AnInGe

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Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 20 of 63 (361923)
11-05-2006 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by AnswersInGenitals
11-05-2006 3:08 PM


Why do so many religions and societies frown upon, discourage, outlaw, or even criminalize masturbation when it is known to be such a health activity, not only for the individual doing it, but for society as a whole when it suffers fewer unwanted pregnancies and rape?
that's a good point. I think wrt mainstream Christianity it's to do with the self-loathing required to believe that Jesus died for your past and future sins. I sincerely think that if St Paul had the occasional one off-the-wrist the Christian church would have been a much more mellow and pragmatic affair.
Did Ted Haggard ever participate in a circle jerk? (Or does he insist that he just watched?)
I believe he put it in his mouth but didn't inhale (or was that Clinton?)
As long as we're on the topic, why if you are right handed does masturbating with your left hand seem so awkward?
For the same reason you don't toss pancakes with your left hand: you'll often going to miss the pan and you'll end up with a sticky, gooey mess all over your shoes.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the bug and some days you'll be the windscreen."

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nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 21 of 63 (362029)
11-05-2006 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Legend
11-05-2006 2:32 PM


quote:
How many times have we read of rapists who lived all their lives with their parents and never had a girlfriend until one day they snap and start stalking the local Hooters girl ?
Uh, never?
Sorry, I just don't hear about this kind of person being a rapist. You don't need to rape someone to relieve sexual frustration. Ever.
That's what masturbation is for.
Some rapes are crimes of opportunity; "she passed out on the frat house couch" and the like.
If someone rapes another person, it is never, ever only about sexual gratification.
It is about taking something from someone that is not freely offered.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by tudwell, posted 11-05-2006 10:07 PM nator has replied

  
tudwell
Member (Idle past 5979 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 22 of 63 (362037)
11-05-2006 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by nator
11-05-2006 9:18 PM


Some are just misunderstandings. A couple of people get drunk, have sex, one of them decides later they didn't really want to have sex, and so says the other raped them. Date rape. But those are probably only a minority of rape cases. (Actually I have no clue.)

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nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 23 of 63 (362040)
11-05-2006 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by tudwell
11-05-2006 10:07 PM


quote:
A couple of people get drunk, have sex, one of them decides later they didn't really want to have sex, and so says the other raped them. Date rape.
That's not date rape.
Date rape is when a couple of people start fooling around, one of them says no and resists going further, and the other one doesn't stop.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 24 of 63 (362050)
11-06-2006 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by jar
11-04-2006 7:56 PM


Re: Homeland Security through Porn!
ot. this is for discussion, not old jokes.

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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 63 (362121)
11-06-2006 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by tudwell
11-05-2006 10:07 PM


I spent a semester sharing an office with a victim of date rape. It was emotionally devastating for me, and I was just someone who shared the office with her; imagine what it was like for her.
I really should feel offended, but instead I just feel so...tired.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 26 of 63 (362267)
11-06-2006 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by nator
11-05-2006 10:19 PM


quote:
A couple of people get drunk, have sex, one of them decides later they didn't really want to have sex, and so says the other raped them. Date rape.
That's not date rape.
actually, it is, in this state. it's also statutory rape if you buy a woman 50% or more of her alcohol consumption for the night. agreement at the time is apparently irrelevent, especially if alcohol is involved.


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Replies to this message:
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 27 of 63 (362275)
11-06-2006 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by arachnophilia
11-06-2006 9:10 PM


What state is that?!?
Do you happen to have a citation?

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 28 of 63 (362286)
11-06-2006 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by subbie
11-06-2006 9:33 PM


florida, and actually, i'm looking for one. i might be mistaken. technically,
quote:
(4) A person who commits sexual battery upon a person 12 years of age or older without that person's consent, under any of the following circumstances, commits a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, s. 775.084, or s. 794.0115:
(d) When the offender, without the prior knowledge or consent of the victim, administers or has knowledge of someone else administering to the victim any narcotic, anesthetic, or other intoxicating substance which mentally or physically incapacitates the victim.
you have to get her to drink (to an undefined point of incapacity) without her consent, or without her knowledge. meaning if she's not aware of how drunk she is... i think in reality, and in court, you'll find that simply being intoxicated to a certain degree renders a person unable to legally give consent, and thus it's statutory rape. buying a person alcohol to get them to this point just looks incredibly suspicious. see for instance, the uf police's advice:
quote:
Date/Acquaintance rape occurs when an individual is forced by someone he or she knows to participate in unwanted sexual activity. ...administration of alcohol or other drugs ... is often present in an acquaintance rape situation.
quote:
*Be aware of your date. Having sex with someone who is mentally or physically incapable of giving consent is rape. If you have sex with a woman who is drugged, intoxicated, passed out, incapable of saying "No," or unaware of what is happening around her, you may be guilty of rape.
Page not found » UF Police Department
or johnson and wales:
quote:
” It is your responsibility to make sure that anyone with whom you have sexual contact is fully aware of the situation and has actively given consent! “Consent” means a voluntary agreement to participate in sexual activity and requires mutually understandable and communicated words and/or actions demonstrating such agreement. A failure to object does not mean that the other person has consented. For example, a person may be unable to consent if the person is under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
404 | Johnson & Wales University
date rape cases are very, very tricky to argue either way, and this is one of the reasons. the only reason the "i changed my mind the next morning" matters is because the person is then sober -- and because they have to object to actually bring a case. having sex with someone without their informed and non-intoxicated consent is always rape.
Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 29 of 63 (362670)
11-08-2006 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by arachnophilia
11-06-2006 10:04 PM


quote:
It is your responsibility to make sure that anyone with whom you have sexual contact is fully aware of the situation and has actively given consent! “Consent” means a voluntary agreement to participate in sexual activity and requires mutually understandable and communicated words and/or actions demonstrating such agreement.
in other words, if you want to have sex with a woman who had a couple you need to bring in Henry Kissinger to negotiate the agreement and the UN to supervise the act itself.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the bug and some days you'll be the windscreen."

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 Message 28 by arachnophilia, posted 11-06-2006 10:04 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 30 of 63 (362680)
11-08-2006 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Legend
11-08-2006 4:42 PM


in other words, if you want to have sex with a woman who had a couple you need to bring in Henry Kissinger to negotiate the agreement and the UN to supervise the act itself.
What, your dick is so important that it's an international crime if it isn't allowed inside a woman?
Seriously, I don't understand your perspective. How often do you really think it's going to happen where:
1) a woman you don't know at all is interested in having sex with you;
2) she's so drunk she can't legally consent, but
3) she's sober enough that you don't notice.
Or is it just that you think you're above the requirement to use your judgement?
The requirement that one secure explicit, meaningful consent before having sex with someone hardly seems like an onerous burden. I hadn't realized that a man's right to fuck was so sacrosanct that no such burden could possibly be borne.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Legend, posted 11-08-2006 4:42 PM Legend has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-08-2006 9:57 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 47 by Legend, posted 11-09-2006 2:56 PM crashfrog has replied

  
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