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Author Topic:   Omniscience, Omnipotence, the Fall & Logical Contradictions.
Christian7
Member (Idle past 248 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 196 of 354 (362244)
11-06-2006 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by jar
11-06-2006 8:01 PM


Re: Let's examine that further.
Did God create all that is, seen and unseen?
God created everything, but he did not define our character. He simply let it be as it is, so that we could have true free will.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by jar, posted 11-06-2006 8:01 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by jar, posted 11-06-2006 8:14 PM Christian7 has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 197 of 354 (362245)
11-06-2006 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Christian7
11-06-2006 8:10 PM


Re: Let's examine that further.
So just to be sure, you agree that
  • God knows what we will do.
  • we can do nothing that God has restricted us from doing.
Did God create all that is, seen and unseen?
To which you replied:
God created everything, but he did not define our character.
So do you agree that:
  • God knows what we will do.
  • we can do nothing that God has restricted us from doing.
  • God created everything.
  • Everything includes everyone.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Christian7, posted 11-06-2006 8:10 PM Christian7 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Christian7, posted 11-06-2006 8:16 PM jar has replied

  
Christian7
Member (Idle past 248 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 198 of 354 (362247)
11-06-2006 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by jar
11-06-2006 8:14 PM


Re: Let's examine that further.
# God knows what we will do.
# we can do nothing that God has restricted us from doing.
# God created everything.
# Everything includes everyone.
Of course.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by jar, posted 11-06-2006 8:14 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by jar, posted 11-06-2006 8:27 PM Christian7 has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 199 of 354 (362248)
11-06-2006 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Christian7
11-06-2006 8:07 PM


iBibleNano writes:
So at anytime you could freely chose to accept him.
How do you know I "can"? Only God knows if I will.
Because part of God demonstrating who he is is saying, "You were wrong when you said I didn't exist.....
Whom is God demonstrating to? Us? (Who else is there?)
If so, He has to demonstrate in a way that makes sense to us. Frying people for eternity doesn't demonstrate "mercy" to us. It demonstrates cruelty, capriciousness....
Your concept of omniscience doesn't paint a very nice picture of God.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Christian7, posted 11-06-2006 8:07 PM Christian7 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Christian7, posted 11-06-2006 8:21 PM ringo has replied

  
Christian7
Member (Idle past 248 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 200 of 354 (362249)
11-06-2006 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by ringo
11-06-2006 8:18 PM


How do you know I "can"? Only God knows if I will.
I know if you will too. And the answer is you most probably never will. But that doesn't mean you can't. You have the free will to, but the fact is, you simply won't use it.
You see, that's where the trouble is.
Athiests cannot disceren can from will.
It could be said about a person that they won't do their homework, but that doesn't mean they can't. You see what I am saying? The same is true in regards to free will.
Whom is God demonstrating to? Us? (Who else is there?)
If so, He has to demonstrate in a way that makes sense to us. Frying people for eternity doesn't demonstrate "mercy" to us. It demonstrates cruelty, capriciousness....
Your concept of omniscience doesn't paint a very nice picture of God.
In the afterlife everyone will understand, whether they are in heaven or in hell.
And God is also showing off to the angels. Yes, it's true. God does things just to show off. When God took up Elijah (or Elisha, I forget which) he really wen't under the ground into paradise. So that whole rapture thing was for a show.
Edited by iBibleNano, : No reason given.
Edited by iBibleNano, : No reason given.
Edited by iBibleNano, : No reason given.
Edited by iBibleNano, : Just to note: After Jesus was crucified he wen't under the ground and took paradise up to heaven with him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by ringo, posted 11-06-2006 8:18 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by ringo, posted 11-06-2006 8:34 PM Christian7 has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 201 of 354 (362251)
11-06-2006 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Christian7
11-06-2006 8:16 PM


Re: Let's examine that further.
jar asked:
  • God knows what we will do.
  • we can do nothing that God has restricted us from doing.
  • God created everything.
  • Everything includes everyone.
and iBibleNano replied:
Of course.
Are there atheists?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Christian7, posted 11-06-2006 8:16 PM Christian7 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by Christian7, posted 11-06-2006 8:28 PM jar has replied

  
Christian7
Member (Idle past 248 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 202 of 354 (362252)
11-06-2006 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by jar
11-06-2006 8:27 PM


Re: Let's examine that further.
Are there atheists?
Just get to the fucking point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by jar, posted 11-06-2006 8:27 PM jar has replied

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 Message 204 by jar, posted 11-06-2006 8:37 PM Christian7 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 203 of 354 (362253)
11-06-2006 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Christian7
11-06-2006 8:21 PM


iBibleNano writes:
Athiests cannot disceren can from will.
How did we get to "atheists"?
It could be said about a person that they won't do their homework, but that doesn't mean they can't.
Then my question would be: If the teacher knew that the homework wouldn't be done, why would he assign it? To demonstrate his power to assign homework? To demonstrate his "mercy" by punishing those who don't do it?
God does things just to show off.
You make Him seem more and more petty.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 204 of 354 (362255)
11-06-2006 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by Christian7
11-06-2006 8:28 PM


Re: Let's examine that further.
jar asked:
Are there atheists?
to which iBibleNano as a good Christian boy said:
Just get to the fucking point.
That hardly sounds like an answer to the question.
Are there atheists?
Found out that IBibleNano is under 16. So I am terminating this discussion with him. He has lots of time to explore his beliefs and perhaps when he is older we can continue.
Edited by jar, : add age comment

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Christian7, posted 11-06-2006 8:28 PM Christian7 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Rob, posted 11-07-2006 12:29 AM jar has replied
 Message 211 by DominionSeraph, posted 11-08-2006 2:10 AM jar has not replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 205 of 354 (362322)
11-07-2006 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by jar
11-06-2006 8:37 PM


Re: Let's examine that further.
Jar, sorry for the aside... But, twice I have attempted to join you in the chat room (whether or not you want to talk with me I don't know...) and since my permission to participate in the science forums has been revoked, I cannot go to the chat room. Is that just the way it has to be?
Rob

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by jar, posted 11-06-2006 8:37 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by jar, posted 11-07-2006 12:44 AM Rob has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 206 of 354 (362327)
11-07-2006 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by Rob
11-07-2006 12:29 AM


Re: Let's examine that further.
I know of no reason you cannot get into chat.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Rob, posted 11-07-2006 12:29 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Rob, posted 11-07-2006 1:00 AM jar has not replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 207 of 354 (362330)
11-07-2006 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 206 by jar
11-07-2006 12:44 AM


Re: Let's examine that further.
????
It just says: An error has occured communicating with server. Please reload applet and try again.
I'm not as computer savy as some...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by jar, posted 11-07-2006 12:44 AM jar has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 208 of 354 (362437)
11-07-2006 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Christian7
11-06-2006 8:07 PM


Re: Let's examine that further.
It demonstrates that God has given them a fair chance. It doesn't matter that God created them knowing they would reject him, because it is still their choice.
can't you see the absurdity of what you're saying here ? God created them knowing they would reject him and still he sends the Holy Spirit to show he's given them a fair chance ??!??
what fair chance ?? He knows they will reject him. There is no other chance for them other than rejection, as God cannot be wrong in his knowledge.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the bug and some days you'll be the windscreen."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Christian7, posted 11-06-2006 8:07 PM Christian7 has not replied

  
DominionSeraph
Member (Idle past 4754 days)
Posts: 365
From: on High
Joined: 01-26-2005


Message 209 of 354 (362518)
11-07-2006 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by Christian7
11-06-2006 6:17 AM


Guido Arbia writes:
Because once again, as I have stated, we do not know our own future. There is nothing to change. If we knew our future, then we would have something to change, and if we couldn't change it, then you would have an argument.
So your entire argument is, "Becase you don't know you're in a cage, even though you're in a cage, you're not in cage."
Sorry, but if you're in a cage, you're in a cage.
Edited by DominionSeraph, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by RAZD, posted 11-07-2006 10:43 PM DominionSeraph has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 210 of 354 (362524)
11-07-2006 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by DominionSeraph
11-07-2006 10:09 PM


Sorry, but if you're in a cage, you're in a cage.
An ant in a lion cage is in a cage and yet not caged.
Earth can be defined as a cage for all life on earth: does that make us caged?

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by DominionSeraph, posted 11-07-2006 10:09 PM DominionSeraph has replied

Replies to this message:
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