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Author Topic:   Faith Science - Logically Indefensible
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 136 of 166 (362287)
11-06-2006 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by foxjoe
11-06-2006 10:02 PM


Re: Templeton
foxjoe writes:
I believe (with some evidence) that Christians that are not fundamentalists, doesn't fit my definition of Christianity.
Well, you don't get to make up your own definitions, so we can dispense with that right away.
The topic here is essentially: Faith and science - Do they mix? So forget "Christian" and forget "fundamentalist". What's the problem with faith and science?

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 10:02 PM foxjoe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 10:19 PM ringo has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 137 of 166 (362288)
11-06-2006 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by foxjoe
11-06-2006 10:02 PM


Re: Templeton
Most Christians that go to say presperterian, or old methodist churches, are not concerned with atheists.
Presbyterian?
What does "are not concerned with atheists" mean?
I am not a "Sam Harris" whom has problems with Moderate Christians. They are not interested in thinking about Christianity deeply, just interested in establishing church relationships, singing, dinners, events and social friendships.
And you base that on what?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 10:02 PM foxjoe has not replied

  
foxjoe 
Inactive Member


Message 138 of 166 (362289)
11-06-2006 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by ringo
11-06-2006 10:12 PM


Re: Templeton
What's the problem with faith and science?...
There is no problem with Science. It is the only reliable method we have in gaining knowledge.
Faith, for one is a stupid stupid word. You won't find it in the Greek.
"Believing in something without evidence for it". Hmmm, the problems with this is simple. The two towers that the Muslims knocked over was done in the name of Faith. The Hollocost, countless other atrocities.
Even though some atrocious things are\were done in the name of science (some find terrible), it is stille technically the only reliable way of gaining knowledge.
There you go, not too hard.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by ringo, posted 11-06-2006 10:12 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 10:23 PM foxjoe has not replied
 Message 140 by ringo, posted 11-06-2006 10:26 PM foxjoe has replied

  
foxjoe 
Inactive Member


Message 139 of 166 (362291)
11-06-2006 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by foxjoe
11-06-2006 10:19 PM


Re: Templeton
I was raised a presby, and I still can't spell the damb word.
Life experience.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 10:19 PM foxjoe has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 140 of 166 (362292)
11-06-2006 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by foxjoe
11-06-2006 10:19 PM


Re: Templeton
foxjoe writes:
There you go, not too hard.
That's because you're misunderstanding the question.
I don't care if you think faith is stupid. A lot of scientists would disagree with you.
Stated more simply for you, the question is: Why can't a person of faith be a scientist?
And for extra credit: How do you explain the people of strong faith who are scientists?

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 10:19 PM foxjoe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 10:27 PM ringo has replied

  
foxjoe 
Inactive Member


Message 141 of 166 (362293)
11-06-2006 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by ringo
11-06-2006 10:26 PM


Re: Templeton
Ringo, you missunderstood me. I didn't say faith was stupid. I said it was a stupid word. There is a difference.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by ringo, posted 11-06-2006 10:26 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by ringo, posted 11-06-2006 10:37 PM foxjoe has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 142 of 166 (362294)
11-06-2006 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by foxjoe
11-06-2006 10:27 PM


Re: Templeton
foxjoe writes:
I didn't say faith was stupid. I said it was a stupid word.
Fine. So answer the questions:
Why can't a person of faith be a scientist?
and:
How do you explain the people of strong faith who are scientists?

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 10:27 PM foxjoe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 11:25 PM ringo has replied

  
foxjoe 
Inactive Member


Message 143 of 166 (362302)
11-06-2006 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by ringo
11-06-2006 10:37 PM


Re: Templeton
Dawkins explained it pretty plainly in his book.
When a person is practicing science He uses a set of rules. When a person is practicing "belief without evidence" he is deluded.
One person may practice one or other thing as a hobby, just not at the same time with the same respect.
See, now isn't that easy?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by ringo, posted 11-06-2006 10:37 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 11:28 PM foxjoe has replied
 Message 146 by ringo, posted 11-06-2006 11:36 PM foxjoe has not replied

  
foxjoe 
Inactive Member


Message 144 of 166 (362304)
11-06-2006 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by foxjoe
11-06-2006 11:25 PM


Re: Templeton
Even as an atheist, I can decide to practice Faith, and possibly have a spiritual experience doing so. And at that time, in that respect, I am not an Atheist. But when I come back to reality, the real world where science and logic rule, those experiences become like something I did on the hooch, or some other drug.
People can practice spirituallity, and experience spiritual events, and usually it doesn't matter which God they take along.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 11:25 PM foxjoe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 11:30 PM foxjoe has replied

  
foxjoe 
Inactive Member


Message 145 of 166 (362305)
11-06-2006 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by foxjoe
11-06-2006 11:28 PM


Re: Templeton
Those circles that were drawn can also be drawn with many God's as the topic, and a million circles done in 4 dimensions.
Nice thought?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 11:28 PM foxjoe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 11:36 PM foxjoe has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 146 of 166 (362306)
11-06-2006 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by foxjoe
11-06-2006 11:25 PM


foxjoe writes:
See, now isn't that easy?
Oh, you are new, aren't you? Nothing is ever easy with me.
Dawkins explained it pretty plainly in his book.
What if I don't have faith in Dawkins?
One person may practice one or other thing as a hobby, just not at the same time with the same respect.
That's what I'm saying: As long as one practises religion in church and science in the lab, where's the conflict? You still haven't explained the people of faith who are scientists.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
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foxjoe 
Inactive Member


Message 147 of 166 (362307)
11-06-2006 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by foxjoe
11-06-2006 11:30 PM


Re: Templeton
Another question?
How can people have multiple personallities? I mean there should only be one conscience, one person right? When we as scientist work experiments, we don't put our hands up to our brains pressing on our temples and say "work--work". Do we? The analogy of the circle should be in 4 dimensions anyway. Time is a factor, not usually counted when dealing with science.
How can I possibly go to sleep each night and be a scientist?
Because when I am a scientist, I am not asleep.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 11:30 PM foxjoe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 11:38 PM foxjoe has not replied
 Message 149 by ReverendDG, posted 11-07-2006 12:23 AM foxjoe has not replied

  
foxjoe 
Inactive Member


Message 148 of 166 (362309)
11-06-2006 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by foxjoe
11-06-2006 11:36 PM


Re: Templeton
My grandfather was a person of Faith, and he was a Doctor. He didn't bring is Bible to work. Faith is used to entertain thyself. Science is used to heal others.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 11:36 PM foxjoe has not replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 149 of 166 (362321)
11-07-2006 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by foxjoe
11-06-2006 11:36 PM


Re: Templeton
How can people have multiple personallities? I mean there should only be one conscience, one person right? When we as scientist work experiments, we don't put our hands up to our brains pressing on our temples and say "work--work". Do we? The analogy of the circle should be in 4 dimensions anyway. Time is a factor, not usually counted when dealing with science.
thats a good question, but why are you asking yourself it? it starts to get worry some if you are debating yourself, are you sure you don't have MID
by the way they call it MID, multiple identity disorder, rather than multiple personality disorder
i'm confused though, what does time have to do with a circle? its a dimension sure, but its not really a factor in the shape of a circle

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 11:36 PM foxjoe has not replied

Replies to this message:
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foxjoe 
Inactive Member


Message 150 of 166 (362323)
11-07-2006 12:31 AM


Thanks for that bit of info.
Actually you would have to demonstrate that using a graphics engine.
And it wouldn't necessarily be a circle, it would look more like a pattle wheel turning into water. Where each pattle is a different slice of something. Like Faith is now in the water, then it is Logic's turn, then it is TV's turn, then it is etc etc etc...
MID, I will find that useful in the near future. And I don't think I have it. Uh, wait, wait, ummmmmmmm.... Nope, don't have it.

  
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