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Author Topic:   Haggard thread #2
Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2 of 168 (362356)
11-07-2006 6:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
11-07-2006 3:27 AM


The Dark Side Of Denial
Haggard, in his letter writes:
Our church body is a beautiful body, and like every family, our strength is tested and proven in the midst of adversity. Because of the negative publicity I’ve created with my foolishness, we can now demonstrate to the world how our sick and wounded can be healed, and how even disappointed and betrayed church bodies can prosper and rejoice.
gasby writes:
Is Haggard apologizing for his infidelity or for his gayness? Is the dark side that he talked about his urge to commit infidelity or his homosexuality?
Good question. I certainly hope that Dobson and the fundies to whom he is accountable to don't try and heal him of his inclinations. That never works. Inclinations and actions are two different things.
It is debateable whether homosexual behavior is itself a darkside issue, but I would certainly link Haggards behavior up with infidelity. Marriage is marriage. Ironically, Haggard opposed marriage between men, so it remains to be seen his future stance on this issue publically.
Do you think that he should stay with the fundamentalist conservatives, gasby?
I think that God could use him to heal the rift between evangelicals and homosexual activists.
If only he would have admitted it all before the news media cornered him, he would have more integrity.
Which direction, specifically, do you want this Haggard topic to go? What issue do you want to focus on, gasby?
Edited by Phat, : added

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 11-07-2006 3:27 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 25 of 168 (362605)
11-08-2006 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Taz
11-07-2006 12:37 PM


The Latest
Haggard's infidelity, not with whom, ended prominent pastor's tenure, official says

By Eric Gorski
The Rev. Ted Haggard lost his pulpit because he admitted to "sexual immorality" outside of his marriage, and the gender of the other person involved had no bearing on the decision-making process, a member of the panel that fired him said Monday.
"Not one time in 3 1/2 days (the panel met) was it ever addressed or discussed that this situation was with a man," said the Rev. Michael Ware, senior pastor of Victory Church in Westminster.
"That never entered the conversation," Ware said. "Let's diffuse that right now. I think people are trying to make this a debate about evangelicals and homosexuality, and this was not a debate in this situation at all."
Ware's comments shed more light on Haggard's stunning fall as one of the nation's most prominent evangelical leaders. Other observers parsing Haggard's two-page apology and confession that was read Sunday at New Life Church in Colorado Springs say they can't tell what "darkness" he is struggling with - marital infidelity or same-sex attraction.
Edited by Phat, : edit

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Taz, posted 11-07-2006 12:37 PM Taz has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 36 of 168 (364709)
11-19-2006 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Taz
11-08-2006 1:07 PM


Re: The Latest
Check out this link, Gasby! The best (or worst) part of the article is:
RMN writes:
Haggard's scandal may be the best known but is hardly the only one. Consider what happened just a week before, at a church Arterburn declines to name:
During the Sunday sermon, the pastor turned on his PowerPoint screen to highlight scripture notes for his congregation.
"But the PowerPoint notes didn't come up - it was the most disgusting picture from his pornography collection," Arterburn said.
Elders removed the pastor immediately, and he is being counseled now by Arterburn's ministry.
Here is another related story as well.
Edited by Phat, : add

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Taz, posted 11-08-2006 1:07 PM Taz has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 63 of 168 (364888)
11-20-2006 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by nator
11-20-2006 10:47 AM


What kind of a comeback will Haggard make?
Haggard headed on long journey
The article says that:
DenverPost writes:
Those who have guided public figures and religious leaders through their darkest moments say Haggard's road ahead requires honesty, humility, rest, submission to authority and - above all else - time.
The outcome - possibly several years down the road - could range from retreating to private life to a second act for Haggard. The evangelical Christian world is populated by rehabilitated figures such as Watergate felon Chuck Colson, who runs a prison ministry, and disgraced PTL founder Jim Bakker, who has a TV show again. (...)"We are not very good as a church with knowing how to do restoration,...We either want to sweep it under the rug and say it's no big deal or we want to make it impossible."
Haggard's restoration is to include a clinical exploration of his sexuality, possibly including a polygraph test and consulting with a psychologist, church officials say. Haggard has said he is not gay.
"There is a tendency to say, 'A heterosexual affair, any of us could do that,"' Campolo said. "But there is not the same grace shown to people who commit a homosexual act. Somehow this is put into a super-sin category."
The church needs to deal with sexual issues better than Focus On The Family has been able to do.
Haggard has the chance to win a whole new group of converts if he conquers his biggest sin: Dishonesty

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 65 of 168 (364890)
11-20-2006 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Hyroglyphx
11-20-2006 11:12 AM


Re: the condesending nature of christian "concern"
I know what you mean, nemesis. I know that I will get a lot of flak for saying this, and I dont have any studies on hand to back up my assertion, but many of the men involved in the gay pride movements are emotionally immature.
They defend their right to express their inborn gayness as much as a 17 year old would argue with his Father to be allowed to stay out after midnite to express his heterosexual urges.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-20-2006 11:12 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 98 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-21-2006 11:12 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 69 of 168 (364906)
11-20-2006 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by berberry
11-20-2006 11:24 AM


Re: the condesending nature of christian "concern"
I admit it. I wanted to stir the pot a bit. Haggard was as emotionally immature as anyone. By the way, what does WWED mean>

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by berberry, posted 11-20-2006 11:24 AM berberry has replied

Replies to this message:
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