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Author | Topic: abstinece-only sex education | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
So, some more studies have come in, and it doesn't look good for abstinence-only programs.
It's not just that kids to take pledges to not have sex before marriage still have premarital sex (just a year or so later than those who do not take such pledges) and are more likely to not use any protection. Now studies are showing that the pledge-takers are more likely to also engage in oral and anal sex, also with less liklihood of using protection. In particular, the Latina, (very patriarchal and very Catholic) teen population) is most likely to engage in anal sex, which is an activity particularly likely to spread AIDS and other STD's when engaged in without condoms. It looks as though all of these strict Christians who love to tell their kids "just say no" are stupidly steering them into, um, somewhat more exotic endeavors.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Yes, of course. Anal and oral sex didn't exist before the 60's. How naieve you are, faith.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Wow, I had no idea that you had perfect knowledge in that way. Tell me, how often do James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, and Pat Robertson call you to ask your advice on Biblical matters? Surely, the Pope must contact you regularly, does he not?
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Just to be clear, let us please restrict the discussion to the effects of abstinence only programs.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: So, it would seem that comprehensive, real sex education results in a greater liklihood of moral behavior by teens, as those armed with the truth delay sex longer and indulge in oral and anal sex less than those who only get abstinence-only. Right?
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
So, you suggest that we should keep on with abstinence-only programs even though they result in teens having sex at an younger age, engaging in more anal and oral sex, and them being less likely to use condoms and other forms of birth control?
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Then you have been off-topic for this entire thread?
quote: Educating young people about the mechanics of how babies are made and disease is spread is the most humanity-enforcing thing I think we can possibly do for them. Remember, in the ideal sex education program, the emotional aspects of relationships are going to be stressed. Love, coersion, feelings, and all the rest of it need to be discussed, most of all the importance of respect, both for oneself and one's partner.
quote: Well, the Christian Right has been funding these programs for long enough for there to be fairly long-term data to collect about the results, and it isn't favorable. Clearly, the good Christian folks advocating, developing, and teaching this stuff are doing something wrong.
quote: Nobody said there was anything wrong with teaching kids that abstinence is a perfectly valid option, with the very best track record for preventing all sorts of consequences. What little sex-ed I got in school definitely taught about it along with the facts of what to do if one wasn't going to abstain. However, I have been criticizing abstinence ONLY programs since the OP. They do not work, and in fact seem to lead to more dangerous and, in your eyes, immoral, sexual deviant behavior.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
how many must die for your "we'll wait and see?" quote: Strawman argument. There is an "anti-abstinence ONLY" camp. Abstinence-ONLY. ONLY, ONLY, ONLY. This means that in a good comprehensive sex-education program, abstience is included as a perfectly viable option along with comprehensive education about preganncy and STD prevention and other sexual and relationship health. So, please stop using the term "anti-abstinence" to refer to people who want to teach comprehensive sex education to children, because they do NOT hold the position of being against abstinence.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I am not against abstinence if that is what someone decides is right for them. In fact, I heartily support anyone who decides to remain abstinent. It would be silly to do that because that would be how I chose to live for many years as a teenager and a young adult. I doubt very much that most here would actively oppose abstinence as a valid choice. Now, can you explain to me, please, how that makes me anti-abstinence?
quote: There isn't anything wrong with sex outside of marriage if that is what the individual person so believes and freely chooses. Also, there isn't anything wrong with remaining abstinent until marriage if that is what the individual person so believes and freely chooses. There are also "traditional moral boundries" against having sex in any position except missionary, for women to initiate sex, for sex to ever be engaged in for non-procreative reasons, against masturbation, against interfaith and interracial marriage, etc., etc. So, it very much seems to me that you have your own particular moral code that you believe everyone else should follow.
quote: I am not against abstinence if it is chosen freely within the context of knowledge rather than ignorance and fear.
quote: Why are you sure? You yourself have made it perfectly clear that you have no knowledge of sex education programs at all.
quote: I don't want you to be sorry. I want you to stop misrepresenting the position. Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Holmes, I am not going to comment upon this line of argument other than to say that you are the only person in the world I could ever imagine thinking it's a bad idea to teach children in our culture (which is the culture they live in and will likely continue to live in) that respect for one's self and one's chosen sexual partner is a bad thing.
Honestly, this is what I take away from your posts, and I am aghast.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Holmes wrote:
quote: After reading this, I'd just like to remind everyone that if they would like to know what my position is, please ask me directly rather than rely on others', um, "characterizations".
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Yes, you are wrong. My view should read something like this: "Sex is good and you should feel good about it, but be careful as there is a lot to consider not only regarding yourself and your own feelings but the feelings of other people. Later is better for some people and that is a valid choice and must be respected. Each person is ready and able to accept responsibility for all that is involved with having responsible sex at different points in their lives."
quote: To deal with the issue of clear communication between sexual partners, and also to discuss the many reasons why a person might want to have sex other than because it is physically pleasurable (fear of losing a boyfriend or girlfriend, to bolster poor self-esteem, to feel power over another, to take revenge or make another jealous, as an expression of love, etc.).
quote: Which of these concepts hasn't existed in all of human history? Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
This thread is supposed to be about the success or failure of abstinence-only programs in US schools.
I've allowed myself to drift off topic along with several others. If anyone wants to discuss sex education in general, please start your own thread.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
What she said.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Considering that I was speaking only of sex ed in the US, I think that discussion of US law, both local and national, wrt sexual behavior is entirely appropriate, regardless of the subcultures that individual students may belong to.
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