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Author Topic:   Is death a product of evolution
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 46 (363305)
11-11-2006 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by 2ice_baked_taters
11-03-2006 12:08 AM


The Law of death
How might death be explained by evolution? Is death an integral part of evolution {in other words, evolution not being possible without death} or, is it an adaptation of biological things?
Death would certainly be an integral part of evolution simply by the virtue that death is an important part of life. If nothing ever died but reproduction rates remained, there would be an overabundance of organisms. Is it critical in the aspect of whether or not evolution would be possible, not really. The only aspect is competition. But if something cannot die then competition for food is pointless. Food would be pointless for the immortal.
But I have often wondered why no one in the scientific field has not classified death as a physical law. Everything dies. This fact alone makes it reasonable to refer to it as a natural law. Why has this phenomenon not been named in terms of being a law? Would that incorporate the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics? All things wind down, which is essentially the greatest portion of the law.
What then is the Law of death called?

"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." -2nd Corinthians 10:4-5

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by 2ice_baked_taters, posted 11-03-2006 12:08 AM 2ice_baked_taters has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Modulous, posted 11-11-2006 10:59 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 23 by 2ice_baked_taters, posted 11-22-2006 10:44 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 46 (363312)
11-11-2006 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Modulous
11-11-2006 10:59 PM


Re: The Law of death
The critical part of the OP is that it is talking about dying of 'natural causes' that is to say: of old age. Why do bodies grow old and die?
Well, this is why I wanted to know why no one has named a law of death into the annals of physical law. Why do our bodies grow old and die? Is apart of the 2LoT? What kinds of evolutionary effects would it have if organisms would live longer? Would that effect the rate of reproduction?
Its a great and valid question to ask of evolution, since a simple look at evolution would have us believe that animals should be living longer and longer - yet we don't!
Yeah, I mean we'd have to consider the advantage of natural selection choosing the healthier gene pool. Why hasn't it effected the mortality rate overall? At the same time, what disadvantages would they pose to any given organism? If they lived longer, there would be more competition because all organisms would presumably reproduce longer. The exponential population growth would be astronomical. It sounds very give or take. It sounds that nature/God knows what it/He is doing.

"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." -2nd Corinthians 10:4-5

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Modulous, posted 11-11-2006 10:59 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Modulous, posted 11-11-2006 11:32 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 10 by Taz, posted 11-12-2006 12:20 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 46 (363430)
11-12-2006 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Modulous
11-11-2006 11:32 PM


Re: The Law of death
our cells replace themselves so the cells you have at 50 are different than the cells when you are 10. If you kept the same cells all your life you would eventually 'wear down', but that isn't what is going on in biology.
Certinaly our cells replicate. And you'd probably be right that if they didn't we'd wear out a whole lot faster than we do through a natural death. Lets extend my meaning a bit further then. Why, if our cells replicate, is this not an ongoing process within our bodies when life (biology) is continually going? I know that telomeres play a large role in cell aging/death. What should happen if we could reverse any of these processes? Why do we die Modulous? I guess that's the simplest way to word the question.
Scientific laws are usually formal statements rather than 'things die'.
That's exactly my point. Why haven't any formal statements concerning death have been annotated somewhere in the annals of physical law? Its seems like such a profound law that the phenomena should be rightly named. I guess I'm just looking for something more cerebral than just saying 'everything that lives will eventually die.'
I suppose one could say that there is an empirical law of death. I think it is simpler to refer to fact of death than require some kind of law (because theoretically a life could exist that would never die of old age).
Theoretically life could exist apart from death. But nothing has managed to stave off death indefinitely. If it is factually accurate to say that everything that lives will eventually die, why not refer to that as a formal law, such as Newtons laws of motion? Its so profound and nothing has been able to circumvent the authority of death that I scarcely see why we shouldn't assign it a formal name.
The population would still have a peak value at which level enough members do not survive long enough to reproduce. This would have the effect of balancing the population size out (we see it today anyway - most organisms do not live long enough to die of old age).
My scenario was assuming that all organisms died of old age rather than from accidental death or succumbing to predation. What affects would that have on all populations? As a result, almost all organisms might invariably die at younger ages than their progenitors.
Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : edit to add

"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." -2nd Corinthians 10:4-5

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Modulous, posted 11-11-2006 11:32 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Modulous, posted 11-12-2006 4:32 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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