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Author Topic:   The consequences of an intelligent designer
iano
Member (Idle past 49 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 46 of 53 (359258)
10-27-2006 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by mick
10-27-2006 8:06 AM


Re: And...
And be more or less fit for use - but not exactly perfect. As if a little fallen in fact
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subbie
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 3508
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 47 of 53 (359282)
10-27-2006 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by mick
10-27-2006 8:06 AM


Re: And...
I guess each species will also come with irreducably complex assembly instructions

In several different languages, perhaps including Klingonese and Vulcan.

I'm also pleased to observe that batteries are included.


Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4656
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 48 of 53 (359353)
10-27-2006 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by kuresu
10-26-2006 7:34 PM


Re: Hi Gasb
so in other words, either your God doesn't know everything, or he is mortal. which is it?

It's a third choice called a false dichotomy. :)You have to prove that if not this then then that.

how can an immortal being know what it is like to try and survive?
because in order to try and survive, the risk of death must be real

How can X know how to B, because to be B2 the risk of Z must be real.

X has no risk of Z therfore doesn't know how to B.

You equivocated, and show B as the same as B2, but it's slightly different!(begging the question)

The correct conclusion is that X doesn't need to try and survive, NOT that he doesn't know how.

Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.

Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.


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42
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 53 (360320)
11-01-2006 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by kuresu
10-25-2006 7:58 PM


Re: An example.
I would agree that the human nervous system is the most complex known object, but: if the web of interaction can be considered a system which comprises every human mind, each in its own context, then that is surely more complex than the brain itself. Perhaps not surely, but arguably surely. Have a good day.


Human Evolution in 42 Steps
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5622
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 50 of 53 (363306)
11-11-2006 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by subbie
10-24-2006 10:47 AM


The first two questions that come to my mind along these lines are, why would any intelligence direct, tamper with or otherwise influence the course of life on this insignificant third rock from an ordinary star, and if it's so intelligent, why didn't it do a better job of it?

Well, your question assumes that there is something inherently wrong with the universe, or planet, or organism, or what have you. Its also an assumption that we are ordinary and insignificant. I would agree that the universe certainly appears at times to be something arbitrary. But I have nothing else to compare it to. If this universe is imperfect, who among us knows of another universe that is? Instead of challenging the Intelligence on just how intelligent it is, perhaps it is we that are not intelligent enough to comprehend the sheer genius of it.

At the same time, its a bit of a dichotomy for a proponent of ID, and this is how. Proponents of ID use irreducible complexity as a way to measure the alleged intelligence factor. In other words, they are saying, "look, its clearly designed. These things don't just happen." At the same time, if we are unable to discern what is capricious and what is intended, then how can the ID argument stand as being something obvious?

So is it obvious or are we oblivious?

I think even the most staunch naturalist could admit that some things really do appear designed by intent. And even the most staunch proponent of ID could admit that some things appear random. Perhaps its a little of both. Maybe in some ways both groups are correct in some inferences and incorrect in others.

Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : edit to add


"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." -2nd Corinthians 10:4-5
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RickJB
Member (Idle past 3099 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 51 of 53 (363345)
11-12-2006 3:38 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Hyroglyphx
11-11-2006 10:38 PM


NJ writes:

Proponents of ID use irreducible complexity as a way to measure the alleged intelligence factor.

Oh really? Do you have some hard "intelligence factor" data we can read?

IC has been debunked so many times I've lost count.

Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.


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Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 52 of 53 (363354)
11-12-2006 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by subbie
10-24-2006 10:47 AM


subbie says:

The first two questions that come to my mind along these lines are, why would any intelligence direct, tamper with or otherwise influence the course of life on this insignificant third rock from an ordinary star,

The assumption of insignificance makes effective poetry but fallacious logic.

Just because a planet is small does not mean it lacks significance. Are children less significant than adults because they are smaller?

Anyway, tampering with this planet need not confer any special status. Maybe the intelligence tampers with everything. Maybe it tweaks other objects in the universe much more than this one.

and if it's so intelligent, why didn't it do a better job of it?

Maybe it's doing a magnificent job. Maybe the experiment is to grow bacteria in as many different habitats as possible and see what happens. You and I are two of the habitats.

___

Edited by Archer Opterix, : the heck of it.


Archer

All species are transitional.


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subbie
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 3508
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 53 of 53 (363373)
11-12-2006 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Archer Opteryx
11-12-2006 7:33 AM


Wow, that's the first time anyone has ever called me a poet. I'm flattered. :D


Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
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