A general discussion of debate (goals)

Amen.Maybe you can start a thread on the holistic path. I have a naturopathic doctor.I'm curious about the fact that you didn't take your kids to the doctor.Did you not have to give them vaccinations? That may have been before schools required them.I'm new on the natural path, so maybe we can have a thread to share info.Don't answer here. Sorry for the interruption.

PurpleDawn's a creationist.
PurpleDawn hates biology. Thanks Doc, that was the best laugh I've had all day.In line with the topic on the goal of debate, isn't part of the goal to understand your opponent's position? Jumping to conclusions with no evidence is not a viable way to understand your opponent's position.Your post has shown that we can't provide accurate responses if we don't clearly understand our opponent's position.I think one of the other goals of the debate, especially since we are in a science forum, is to provide evidence so that our opponent can also attempt to understand our position and how we got there.Your post was a rant and provided no learning potential for either of us. A good laugh for many, but not much in the learning arena.I don't enjoy arguing. I enjoy learning. That's why I stayed here.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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Well, so it appeared.

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Appeared from what?Even if I am anti-vaccination, that doesn't mean I hate biology, that I'm a creationist, or believe in talking snakes.The EvC Home pages says: Dedicated to helping develop a better understanding of both sides of the issue. How can you build a better understanding by lumping everything together?Just as all those who accept TOE aren't automatically atheists, everyone who disagrees with a scientific result isn't automatically a creationist.IMO, it is imperative in a debate situation to be open to possible variables, not get blinded by one's own crusade.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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Are you an anti-vaccinator? You have not said. You've just danced around the issue.

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But that's not the issue of the thread.It is the goal of the debate. So if you are not open to learning something different or to the possibility of being wrong, is it necessary to even continue the discussion?I'm open. I don't have my mind made up. For me a discussion looking at facts and studies would be interesting.If you feel that you can have an open debate, as opposed to a personal crusade; I challenge you to a Great Debate. No religion or religious beliefs allowed. Just science and nature. If you are up for it I will compose an OP this evening (hopefully). You can show me your evidence and I'll show you mine. P.S., I'm not a scientist so my evidence is from what I have read or heard from my doctors. If that is acceptable, just give me a yes or no and we'll hash out the details in the appropriate thread.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

I have noticed that alot lately in some threads.There is more posturing and the implication that the opponent is illiterate, not brilliant, on meds, etc.; instead of actual evidence and clear reasoning.I do think some people have a goal to intimidate instead of discuss.Unfortunately that doesn't help anyone learn anything which should be the goal of the debate, IMO.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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Just out of curiosity, would you be discussing with Dr. Adequate the effectiveness of vaccinations vs. potential dangers, or would the debate be more along the lines of discussing different value systems?

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Effectiveness, dangers. The debate would be science only.I don't see that there is any way to determine whose value system is better. Those are the type of arguments that don't go anywhere because no one wants to give them up. Which as this topic is discussing, what would be the point of the debate?The factual information would need to be debated and then the particpants would have to use their value systems to decide what is best for them given the facts.I think we're walking a fine line in keeping this on topic, but if Dr. Adequate doesn't take up the great debate challenge I will make it a general discussion. I think there is interest.So till then I think we're done.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz