A general discussion of debate (goals)

I'm here for the fence-sitting lurkers (and non-lurkers).I'm also here because I think that defending science against nonsense and pseudoscience is the moral thing to do.It's also practical, since ignorance, particularly the sort that is religiously-based and willfully maintained, is, I believe, one of the greatest dangers to the future peace, prosperity, and survival of the entire planet, the human race included.

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The main purpose I post on boards like this is the challenge of writing a good, logical, clear statement. It is a pretty enjoyable exercise for me. Even as the same old PRATTs come up again and again, I like to see if I can restate the actual facts and reasoning in a different, perhaps clearer way, and to try out completely different lines of argument. I recognize that some of my attempts at a different approach end up falling flat, but, hey, that just makes it more of an accomplishment when I hit one that works.

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Also, even if I am answering the same old question for the 100th time, sometimes I gleen new insights either from further study on the matter, or as I think a little deeper on it. Sometimes these insights are not appropriate or off-topic for the post I am answering at the time, but the new insights are illuminating nonetheless.

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Also, I am sometimes surprised and pleased to see a new creationist tactic or argument that I have not yet seen before, or I have not yet had the opportunity to respond. This makes the debate even more fun, as I then have to think of a counter argument from scratch.

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Yes, I agree that the debate is great, on many levels, as an intellectual exercise. I enjoy that aspect as well.I certainly have become much more competent over the years from all the practice.

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I haven't been to a Dr's office since and all my medicines are fundamentalist wholistic herbal, vitamin, mineral,

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All your medicines are "fundamentalist"?Does that mean that you don't have to demonstrate that they are effective; rahter you just believe that they are?But anyway, buz, you do know that your (over)reaction to your bad experience with a single prescription drug makes no sense whasover, don't you?I mean, I agree with you that a lot of moden medical practice has things the wrong way round and that they treat symptoms instead of the illness, don't focus on prevention, resort to meds and surgery far too often, and are too cozy with the pharmeceutical companies.You should be aware that very few of the herbal and so-called "natural" remedies out on the market are tested for efficacy nor safety. Nor do we know much about how many of these drugs (and they ARE drugs, buz) react in the body in combination. That's why, every so often, we hear about a few people going into comas, or having heart attacks, or being poisoned, or dying, etc. from taking herbal remedies.Likewise, there are little to no real standards for the education or certification of the many so-called naturopaths or herbal healers.

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Whether it's religion, media, education, medicine, or whatever, the professionals often operate on a money driven system.

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And all of the natural remedy people don't? How charmingly naieve.The natural and herbal remedy industry is a multi-billion dollar industry, buz, and extremely profitable, since the manufactuers have little to no responsibility to go to the expense of the testing and trials to show that their products are safe and effective that way that pharmaceutical companies do.They are in it for the money. Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.