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Author Topic:   A general discussion of debate (goals)
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3665 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 28 of 57 (364522)
11-18-2006 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Percy
11-18-2006 7:11 AM


Re: One man's "truth"
We have the truth already, but when you say conclusions you mean scientific conclusions. Scientific conclusions, i.e., theory, are not truth, and scientifically the evidence does not support the Biblical truth at this time.
Nor will it, for the "truth" you have is not TRUTH at all but an illusion. As a TRUE scientist and follower of the Ruchira Avatar, Adi Da Samraj, I am fully aware of the TRUTH and how TRUTH and science walk hand-in-hand in blissful company. The "truth" you have created for yoursleves is a construct from your egoic mind, and you are deluded. But once you experience TRUTH for yourself, you will give up on such foolish notions of the "flood" and other illusions, and your eyes will be opened to the true possibilities of science.
Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Percy, posted 11-18-2006 7:11 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Percy, posted 11-18-2006 9:53 AM cavediver has replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3665 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 39 of 57 (364551)
11-18-2006 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Percy
11-18-2006 9:53 AM


Re: One man's "truth"
I suppose those who believe truth is so simple that there can be only one truth, more accurately, one expression of truth, have to believe this.
You have obviously learned much. But surely such a belief in only one "truth" is the remit of you and your Christian brothers? Interesting that you see beyond this...
True fundamentalist scientists understand this. That is why their voice is much more quiet and you don't hear from them or about them on the Internet. The time to go public is when you have legitimate results to announce and not before
But what can they achieve? You already claim to have the truth. Surely, they can give you no further assurance. Is it their hope that their theories, once ready, will succeed where the evangelist fails? To my mind, they would be better putting their talents to work in mainstream science for the benefit of all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Percy, posted 11-18-2006 9:53 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Percy, posted 11-19-2006 2:39 AM cavediver has replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3665 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 57 of 57 (364716)
11-19-2006 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Percy
11-19-2006 2:39 AM


Re: One man's "truth"
I find I am out of ammo.
I'm not suprised. But it was a good attempt and I am very impressed with your four key paragraphs, with which I will waste space and quote below. You could present these to every creationist who comes here. The varied responses would be interesting...
percy writes:
The characterization of the creation/evolution debate in Message 1 simply says that creationists are scientific irrationalists unable to properly interpret evidence. This is unquestionably true of many who come here and who visit other discussion boards around the net. This is because my brothers in Christ are primarily people of faith, not science, and their meager comprehension of the nature of scientific inquiry leads them to make bold and nonsensical declarations reminiscent of Billy Sunday's ignorant, "When the Word of God says one thing and scholarship says another, scholarship can go to hell."
Unfortunately, many laboring in the name of fundamentalist science make the same mistake as the ever-present declarators of the imminent second coming by repeatedly making extremely premature claims of reconciliation of material evidence with Biblical truth. It started with Morris's ridiculous vapor canopy, extended through silly claims like hydrologic sorting, and continues today with things like Baumgardner's catastrophic plate tectonics, Humphreys' Starlight and Time ideas, and Dembski and Gitt's misguided information theories. These "creation scientists" give fundamentalist science a bad name with their premature and contradictory claims.
True fundamentalist scientists know that we are not so close as those mentioned above mislead many sincere evangelicals into believing, and by this they do great damage. Being Christian and doing science does not mean turning off your brain. Staring at contradictions and declaring them not to be contradictions is not the way fundamentalist science is going to successfully portray itself as true science.
True fundamentalist scientists understand this. That is why their voice is much more quiet and you don't hear from them or about them on the Internet. The time to go public is when you have legitimate results to announce and not before. In the meantime all believing Christians should remember that it is faith and salvation that are important and rest confidently in the knowledge that the current creation/evolution conundrum is merely a minor puzzle of the current era that will one day be resolved.
By the way, my brother is a devotee of Adi Da, though his devotion is as varied and cyclical as mine is in my own faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Percy, posted 11-19-2006 2:39 AM Percy has not replied

  
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