Haggard thread #2

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A call for higher quality teasing, if you will.

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lol!What am I, some fluffer?

Nice point and I think it may be argued they can lose more than just their credibility in this fight.I do find it interesting that the minister admitted religion's only real commodity is moral authority. One wonders what his stance is on EvC.

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holmes
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

Haggard headed on long journeyThe article says that: The church needs to deal with sexual issues better than Focus On The Family has been able to do.Haggard has the chance to win a whole new group of converts if he conquers his biggest sin: Dishonesty

I would expect this. Or thinking of himself first and foremost as a father. What I wouldn't expect is someone to define themselves by their sexuality. If the subject comes up, I will share that with people. I don't offer that unsolicited unless something specific directs toward that topic. No, I'm not wrapped up in being straight. Because my husbandry has to do with my family, not with my sexuality. The last thing that would pop into my head about mentioning my kids is to "prove that I had sex with a woman." Let me explain what I mean. I'm going to direct to some websites and tell me if what I'm saying makes sense.1. Leading Gay Realtor, LGBTQ Real Estate Agent Directory, GayRealEstate.comOkay, "gay" real estate???? As opposed to what? Straight real estate? What purpose does it serve to have the word "gay" in the title when most people would disassociate real estate from their sexuality.2. ForbiddenGay Mart???? I first saw this while living in San Diego. Okay, now what purpose does it serve to have "gay" in your title?3. Package Travel Deals & Last Minute Vacations | OrbitzGay travel? As opposed to what? Straight travel? What does traveling have anything to do with ones sexual preference?4. http://www.gaysports.com/Gay sports? Now, these are just four instances of what I'm talking about. Why is the self-identity wrapped up in something that supposedly is completely natural? If you'll also notice, it usually takes about two seconds before something sexual in nature comes up, like a sweaty, half-naked body. What purpose does it serve?

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I also don't understand gay pride parades, because if you were born a certina way, then none of that was of your own volition. Why, then, would that instill a sense of pride?

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Yeah, I'm just not so sure about that. Feel the prideI'm not really seeing the adversityYes... Yes, I do.

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Faith is not a pathetic sentiment, but robust, vigorous confidence built on the fact that God is holy love. You cannot see Him just now, you cannot fully understand what He's doing, but you know that you know Him." -Oswald Chambers

I know what you mean, nemesis. I know that I will get a lot of flak for saying this, and I dont have any studies on hand to back up my assertion, but many of the men involved in the gay pride movements are emotionally immature.They defend their right to express their inborn gayness as much as a 17 year old would argue with his Father to be allowed to stay out after midnite to express his heterosexual urges.

Phat writes:

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...many of the men involved in the gay pride movements are emotionally immature.

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Oh yeah, just like many of the men involved in the leadership of christian churches. Consider the eponym of this thread, for instance.I love it when people choose to express our common humanity rather than highlight our differences. Thank you for that, Phat. ;D

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W.W.E.D.?

Incoming. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that many people involved in every and all kind of movements are emotionally immature.Who isn't immature? What is your measure? How do you know what people are like in the gay pride movement vs everywhere else?I remember Tal trying to paint all Iraq War protestors with the picture of the guy in a clown outfit. Is that the kind of experience you have with knowing the people in the entire gay pride movement?As a contrast explain the maturity level expressed by "Kiss me I'm Irish", or "We don't celebrate Halloween because we're good Xians".And finally, why are only men in those movements immature? I find that analogy rather revealing and not so hot for you.Otherwise, your post was quite mature. Heheheh.Edited by holmes, : gay pride

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holmes
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

He said they were celebrating their survival of oppression and adversity. Your linked images are of the survivors.You want some images of people that were beaten and killed?

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holmes
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

I admit it. I wanted to stir the pot a bit. Haggard was as emotionally immature as anyone. By the way, what does WWED mean>

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I know that I will get a lot of flak for saying this, and I dont have any studies on hand to back up my assertion, but many of the men involved in the gay pride movements are emotionally immature.

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You mean these men?: Or the man whi installed these urinals, and the hundreds of men who used them and didn't say a word about them? Oh wait, none of these men are represented as specifically gay, but they routinely gather in large arenas and stadiums and act utterly emotionally immature.

And let's not forget hyst a few of the ones killed for being gay:

First, I saw the fluffer joke above. Heheheh... nice.As for your post to phat, I was also having a good laugh until I reached the picture of the urinal and this comment... Now I guess I could tease you about your tendency to bring in feminist/prudism no matter the subject, but I'm going to skip it to try and put this particular myth to rest.The inventor of the mouth urinal was a WOMAN. She is a dutch artist, and I believe (though I could be wrong) she might be gay. While I am not going to argue that pissing into such a urinal is mature, what is mature about pissing into any other toilet?In holland, if not across europe, they seem to take bathrooms with a sense of humor. There are all sorts of goofy toiletseats or other toilet paraphenalia. There simply are no inherent political or derogatory meanings to such things. I remember recently seeing a toilet brush holder where you placed the brush in the mouth of a man (think of the potential political ramifications of that). And all over a popular them park you have to put garbage into the mouths of male beings.In any case the dutch artist of the toilet thought it was a funny kitsch thing in the same vein as all the rest. She does not even view it as a female looking mouth. And I sort of agree it reminds me more of a "mick jagger" mouth. It is cartoonish. A joke. Humor.She was suprised when there was suddenly an uproar about them, and thought the people who complained were rather immature. Very U.S. This certainly raises the question of if people saying nothing about them were the ones who were immature.Edited by holmes, : certain

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holmes
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

I thought about posting pics of adversity too.One of those people pictured was beaten right nearby where I live. When it happened I had to think it could just as well have been me. I can't say it made me scared but it was spooky.On the day of the gay pride parade I was confronted by a guy clearly looking to pick a fight with gays. Ironically he chose me as a "fag" despite the fact that I was walking with my gf. Maybe he had bidar.A transexual two blocks from me was murdered.And this in an extremely gay friendly city.

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holmes
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

I do accept your explanation regarding the cultural difference regarding whimsy in bathroom fixtures.I do, however, think it's a bit naive to be surprised that nobody would think that putting open mouths (that appeared to me like a woman's with red lipstick on) over men's urinals would be off-putting to many.Perhaps it is such a "US" attitude because there is a long history of the acceptance and manufacture of such objects here with the definite intent to degrade or demean.I mean, there are many companies devoted to selling nothing but rude, degrading sexist, racist, and gay-hating t-shirts, for example.

Where do you think children come from, NJ? Parthenogenesis? The stork? Same thing. Where do you think your family came from? Because they're being oppressed. They feel like they have to hide a portion of who they are so as to not be disenfranchised or discriminated against out in the straight world, and so naturally, businesses pop up to cater to that need.It's not hard to understand. It's not about constructing an identity only about being gay; it's about being part of an environment where being gay is something that is treated as normal. Homosexuals don't get that from society, mostly thanks to people like you. Sex sells. What, you've never looked in a magazine or turned on a TV? It's hard to imagine where you live where you can see an ad for literally anything at all that doesn't stand a half chance of having a sexy woman in it.Even gay businesses have to advertise and compete with each other. Sex sells for gay men just like for straight men. What do your pictures have to do with that?I literally don't understand your argument. What do cowboys have to do with not being under adversity?