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Author Topic:   The Law Of Contradiction
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 132 of 177 (339973)
08-14-2006 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by subbie
08-14-2006 9:36 AM


Re: Welcome to EvC
Would you say the same thing about the statement, "I believe there is no Zeus," or Thor, or Santa Claus, or Satan, or Bigfoot? Why is is irrational and scientifically indefensible to deny the existence of something for which there is no evidence, and which is inconsistent with the laws of physics?
Yes I would say the same thing.
I can never know with absolute certaintay that these things do not exist. They are not disprovable.
Now if something is inconsistent with the laws of physics then that is another thing entirely. But none of the things you listed actually ARE inconsistent.
The fact is that there always remains the faint possibility that any or all of them might exist in some form or other.
It's all in the definitions. If you define it as being inconsistent with physics then that definition of it cannot exist. Some other definition still could, no matter how remote the possibility.

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 Message 129 by subbie, posted 08-14-2006 9:36 AM subbie has not replied

  
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 133 of 177 (339976)
08-14-2006 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by robinrohan
08-14-2006 10:48 AM


Re: Welcome to EvC
If you had NO belief, then you would have come to no conclusion at all
Precisely
but you have come to a conclusion
No I haven't. That's the whole point. I may lean 99.99% of the way towards a conclusion but I have never reached it and never will.
Everybody has beliefs.
Sure they do. I believe the sun comes up every day. And many other things.
What I do not believe in is anything that is impossible to prove one way or the other.
I might say, "I don't believe I will go to the movie," but I might as well have said, "I believe I will not go to the movie."
Belief in future occurences is not even using the same definition of the word "believe" It doesn't equate at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by robinrohan, posted 08-14-2006 10:48 AM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by robinrohan, posted 08-14-2006 11:30 AM PurpleYouko has replied

  
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 135 of 177 (339984)
08-14-2006 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by robinrohan
08-14-2006 11:30 AM


Re: Welcome to EvC
Who said the belief had to be certain? It might very well be tentative. Many of my beliefs are tentative.
That is actually a good point.
I tend to think in black and white when it comes to belief. I keep forgetting that others don't.
I always equate belief with a "feeling" (if you like) of certainty and that is my meaning when I discuss it.
In my terms I hold no beliefs unless I am absolutely certain of them.
Then again I also follow the scientific method of "tentativity" which kind of leave me with no beliefs at all unless they are in observable facts.
ie. I believe that OH- reacts with H+ to make water. I have observed it. I have measured it. It is a scientific fact.
I do not "believe" in the TOE even though I see it as a very very strongly supported theory. It is not yet an observable fact.
I do believe in evolution (the fact that is). It has been observed and recorded.
I realize I am not using the word "believe" in quite the same way as you are, although I keep forgetting that during discussions. The trouble is that I don't know what other word to actually use in its place to get my meaning across.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by robinrohan, posted 08-14-2006 11:30 AM robinrohan has replied

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 Message 138 by robinrohan, posted 08-14-2006 12:24 PM PurpleYouko has not replied

  
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 160 of 177 (362384)
11-07-2006 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by foxjoe
11-06-2006 7:43 PM


Re: Welcome to EvC
foxjoe writes:
Science says that if God is irriduciply complex, it is necessary that God can't exist.
Hmm. And there I was thinking that science doesn't actually recognize the existence of "Irreducable Complexity".
The point is that if God exists then he does it in a way that science cannot test, measure or even hypothesize about. Even the creationist term "Irreducable complexity" has nothing to say about God. We can't possibly know if he would fit the criteria unless we could test, measure etc. him/her, so we are back to saying nothing aren't we/

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 7:43 PM foxjoe has replied

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 Message 161 by foxjoe, posted 11-07-2006 7:47 PM PurpleYouko has not replied

  
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 164 of 177 (362604)
11-08-2006 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by foxjoe
11-07-2006 7:51 PM


Re: Welcome to EvC
You don't need to test God's non-existense. It is demonstrated every day as many millions of African children die each year of many different afflictions.
Excuse me.
Are you saying that science doesn't need to test something in order to make a determination?
A really good question would be, do you wish to believe in or worship a God that allows such abominations to exist EVERY DAY.
yes that would be a really good question to ask. However it would NOT be a scientific one.
All you have here is a big old "Argument from incredulity". A logical falacy.
I re-iterate, Science says NOTHING about the existence or non-existence of God. It can't! He doesn't fit into its framework.

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 Message 163 by foxjoe, posted 11-07-2006 7:51 PM foxjoe has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by DominionSeraph, posted 11-15-2006 6:02 AM PurpleYouko has replied

  
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 166 of 177 (363872)
11-15-2006 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by DominionSeraph
11-15-2006 6:02 AM


Science says nothing about the existence or nonexistence of God because science only deals with things that are relevant.
True but isn't that going a step further and actually saying something about his existence/non-existence anyway?
I would imagine that if God does exist then he should be extremely relevent.
Or do you think maybe the fact of missing evidence for his existence should be construed as positive evidence for his lack of existence.
I sometimes find myself leaning that way myself but I don't think it is scientifically valid to go down that road.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by DominionSeraph, posted 11-15-2006 6:02 AM DominionSeraph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by DominionSeraph, posted 11-20-2006 5:49 PM PurpleYouko has replied

  
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 168 of 177 (365109)
11-21-2006 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by DominionSeraph
11-20-2006 5:49 PM


It's evidence for lack of relevance, as the value of something that does nothing perceptible is the same as something that does nothing, which is the same as the absence of a thing. (as absences don't "do" at all)
So, the question of existence doesn't need to be tackled, as it doesn't matter what the answer is.
That has to be one of the most eloquently put arguments I have ever heard.
Nice one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by DominionSeraph, posted 11-20-2006 5:49 PM DominionSeraph has not replied

  
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