Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9163 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,409 Year: 3,666/9,624 Month: 537/974 Week: 150/276 Day: 24/23 Hour: 4/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   How did animal get to isolated places after the flood?
Taz
Member (Idle past 3312 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 1 of 194 (364926)
11-20-2006 1:40 PM


I've been trying to understand creationist explanations. Call me a moron, but I still don't get how the creationist would explain how all the marsupials got to Australia. Not just Australia, but places like New Zealand, Hawaii, etc. How did the land dwelling animal get to these places if Noah's ark landed somewhere in the middle east? How did the polar bears get to where they are now?
Please donk't ask me where I want to place this. Just pick the best place for it.
Also, I'm not here to try to refute the creationist position on this. For now, I just want to understand their reasoning.

Place yourself on the map at http://www.frappr.com/evc
The thread about this map can be found here.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Jazzns, posted 11-20-2006 5:39 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 4 by iceage, posted 11-20-2006 6:23 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 5 by fallacycop, posted 11-20-2006 6:49 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 12 by iceage, posted 11-22-2006 11:15 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 14 by Rob, posted 11-28-2006 9:51 PM Taz has replied
 Message 16 by DominionSeraph, posted 11-29-2006 1:59 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 29 by riVeRraT, posted 12-14-2006 9:08 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 50 by riVeRraT, posted 02-12-2007 6:01 PM Taz has replied

  
AdminSchraf
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 194 (364961)
11-20-2006 4:38 PM


I put this in Faith and Belief since you only want to know what people's explanations are rather than a discussion of plausibility.
Remember, this isn't a science forum.
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
Edited by AdminSchraf, : No reason given.

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3932 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 3 of 194 (364971)
11-20-2006 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
11-20-2006 1:40 PM


Welcome to 'Ad-Hoc' the new gameshow staring creationists!
You have to remember one thing about creationism, they have abandoned all semblance of need for their explanation to have any relation to reality or evidence.
For that reason it is possible for them to come here and answer your question as follows.
For a brief period of time after the flood the continents were much higher before they sank a little deeper into the crust after runaway plate subduction was finished. This presented a number of land bridges to animals that no longer exist.
Or vice versa
Ocean levels took awhile to settle to their current state post flood which gave an opporunity for animals to cross land bridges.
Or think up anything else crazy off the top of your head
The continents moved to their current position AFTER the flood was over.
All marsupial animals are decendents of one kind of marsupial that used to know how to fly and subesquently lost that ability due to devolution because of the fall
You need to remember, when you don't care about evidence or even basic plausibility; if your only criteria is that whatever explanation should not contradict the Bible, then anything goes!

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 11-20-2006 1:40 PM Taz has not replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5936 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 4 of 194 (364985)
11-20-2006 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
11-20-2006 1:40 PM


How did the polar bears get to where they are now?
Forget polar bears how about earth worms, slugs, blind shews or blind cave fish. It must be just one of those mysteries that we will just never know.
The geographic differential delineation of lifeforms is one of the strongest evidence of evolution. This observation is both explained and required by evolution theory.
gasby writes:
Also, I'm not here to try to refute the creationist position on this. For now, I just want to understand their reasoning
Gasby, I suspect this will be a quiet thread, but I hope some YEC steps up to the plate as I am also interested.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 11-20-2006 1:40 PM Taz has not replied

  
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5541 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 5 of 194 (364995)
11-20-2006 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
11-20-2006 1:40 PM


how the creationist would explain how all the marsupials got to Australia. Not just Australia, but places like New Zealand, Hawaii, etc. How did the land dwelling animal get to these places if Noah's ark landed somewhere in the middle east?
Not only that.
They also have to explain how come there are no marsupials elsewhere.
How come there are no marsupials in Europe? if they could walk from middle east to Australia, they sure could walk to Europe. Also, to get to Australia they would have had to pass by India. How come there are no Marsupials in India?
If I were you I would get some confortable chair and a nice drink while waiting for an answer 'cause it might take a while...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 11-20-2006 1:40 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by mjfloresta, posted 11-20-2006 7:30 PM fallacycop has not replied
 Message 30 by 8upwidit2, posted 12-14-2006 9:44 AM fallacycop has not replied

  
mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 6014 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 6 of 194 (365006)
11-20-2006 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by fallacycop
11-20-2006 6:49 PM


Google search, marsupials + North America = Opossums
Which last time I checked were marsupials...
Edited by mjfloresta, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by fallacycop, posted 11-20-2006 6:49 PM fallacycop has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by tudwell, posted 11-20-2006 8:01 PM mjfloresta has not replied
 Message 8 by iceage, posted 11-20-2006 10:11 PM mjfloresta has not replied
 Message 9 by RAZD, posted 11-20-2006 10:35 PM mjfloresta has not replied

  
tudwell
Member (Idle past 5999 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 7 of 194 (365018)
11-20-2006 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by mjfloresta
11-20-2006 7:30 PM


Re: Google search, marsupials + North America = Opossums
So...
How'd they get there? That's the topic.
Edited by tudwell, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by mjfloresta, posted 11-20-2006 7:30 PM mjfloresta has not replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5936 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 8 of 194 (365044)
11-20-2006 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by mjfloresta
11-20-2006 7:30 PM


Re: Google search, marsupials + North America = Opossums
Actually marsupials originated in the America's but started to go extinct in the Miocene. Marsupials found their way to Australia, via Antarctica and flourished there to this day. Or so the theory goes based on the current record of fossils.
However, none of this takes away from the fact that there is species differentiation based on geographical isolation.
Madagascar is perhaps a better example - Separated from Africa for some 170 millions years ago. Although there have been migrations (rafting events) something like 3/4 of the island's lifeforms are unique to the island.
The equation is like this:
Population + Separation + Long Time = Unique Lifeforms
Noachian theories do not explain or predict this distribution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by mjfloresta, posted 11-20-2006 7:30 PM mjfloresta has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1426 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 9 of 194 (365047)
11-20-2006 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by mjfloresta
11-20-2006 7:30 PM


Re: Google search, marsupials + North America = Opossums
Google search, marsupials + North America = Opossums
Which last time I checked were marsupials...
They came from South America, where there are several left over from when Australia and South America were joined. == explained by evolution and plate tectonics.
There are also a marsupial fossils found in Europe, Africa and Asia - that came from North America:
A New European Marsupial Indicates a Late Cretaceous High-Latitude Transatlantic Dispersal Route
quote:
The first record of an undoubted opossum-like marsupial from the Mesozoic of Europe indicates an invasion from North America at the end of Late Cretaceous (Maastrichtian). The new 66.1 million-year-old marsupial, Maastrichtidelphys meurismeti n. gen., n. sp., represented by a right upper molar, comes from the type Maastrichtian of The Netherlands. The Maastricht marsupial exhibits affinities with earlier (early Maastrichtian) North American herpetotheriids providing definitive evidence of a high-latitude North Atlantic dispersal route between North America and Europe during the latest Cretaceous.
Perhaps the ark really landed in OZ.
Enjoy.

Join the effort to unravel {AIDS/HIV} {Protenes} and {Cancer} with Team EvC! (click)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by mjfloresta, posted 11-20-2006 7:30 PM mjfloresta has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3312 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 10 of 194 (365279)
11-21-2006 11:39 PM


Bump... I really want to know what's up.

Place yourself on the map at http://www.frappr.com/evc
The thread about this map can be found here.

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by nwr, posted 11-22-2006 12:01 AM Taz has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 11 of 194 (365281)
11-22-2006 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Taz
11-21-2006 11:39 PM


There was an older thread
on this topic, Biogeography falsifies the worldwide flood.. Parts of it are quite hilarious, particularly starting with Message 117. There was also some discussion of this issue in Does The Flood Add up?.

Just say no to McCain 2008; he abandoned principle when he caved on habeus corpus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Taz, posted 11-21-2006 11:39 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Taz, posted 11-23-2006 11:08 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5936 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 12 of 194 (365523)
11-22-2006 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
11-20-2006 1:40 PM


Just wondering how did earth worms propagated from continent to continent and across continents after crawling out of the ark? This is a good question for all locomotion challenged species.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 11-20-2006 1:40 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-07-2007 11:08 AM iceage has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3312 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 13 of 194 (365583)
11-23-2006 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by nwr
11-22-2006 12:01 AM


Bump
I read those threads. The people who gave explanations for the animal life distributions never gave any specifics as to how or any evidence. The closest thing that came along was Rober Byer's claim that Australia wasn't suitable for animal life with 4 running legs and that's why there aren't any. This is obviously wrong because the exotic species like the rodents and rabits are doing more than fine in Australia. Why didn't they go to Australia with the herds of marsupials in the first place?
There was never any specific explanation as to how the animal got there.

Place yourself on the map at http://www.frappr.com/evc
The thread about this map can be found here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by nwr, posted 11-22-2006 12:01 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5870 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 14 of 194 (366666)
11-28-2006 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
11-20-2006 1:40 PM


How did the animals get there?
Thank you Gasby for inviting me to this thread...
As a believer in the Bible, this is one of the questions that perplexes me as well. I have no satisfactory answer for the rationalist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 11-20-2006 1:40 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Taz, posted 11-29-2006 12:17 AM Rob has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3312 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 15 of 194 (366698)
11-29-2006 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Rob
11-28-2006 9:51 PM


Re: How did the animals get there?
scottness writes:
I have no satisfactory answer for the rationalist.
I'm not sure how to take that.

Place yourself on the map at http://www.frappr.com/evc
The thread about this map can be found here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Rob, posted 11-28-2006 9:51 PM Rob has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024