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Author Topic:   Starlight Within a Young Universe
Taz
Member (Idle past 3319 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 2 of 57 (366484)
11-28-2006 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Confidence
11-28-2006 8:26 AM


Confidence writes:
But Humphreys assumption is this, that the stars are numbered, that is the universe has an edge, and therefore has a center. And we are close to the middle of it. Since matter distorts space, the whole universe in the beginning can be closely related to a black hole. That is, there is a dip in the balloon where the center of the mass is. And earth was below the event horizon where it experiences no time.
This makes no sense. If we are below the event horizon, how come we aren't ripped apart by gravitational forces?
Time also is distorted by gravity. So as the light travels from these outside galaxies, earth 's time is still slowed down or still stopped. But as time goes on, maybe on the sixth Earth day as space and the universe is spreading earth finally is at a point where time is matching more closely to that of the outside universe. This is because as matter spreads out the 'dip' in the black hole gets 'shallower' and thus eventually space is distorted less at the center as the universe gets less dense. Then on the 6th day when God created man, the light already on its path for billions of years came in on the sixth earth day for Adam to see all that God has created, including far reaching galaxies.
Nothing in here makes any sense. Do you even understand what a black hole is?
But let's assume that somehow all of this is correct. Wouldn't it have been more accurate for the bible to say something like "a very very very old universe with a very young earth"?
Which starting assumption is correct?
Here's the thing. How does Humphrey's version explain the cosmic background radiation predicted and discovered by the BB theory?
For only the two assumptions proposed can explain why every direction we point our telescope, the universe is relatively homogeneous.
Um, no. It's not just the direction that appear to be homogeneous, it's also the distance. According to Humphrey's version, shouldn't we find a hell of a lot more "stuff" nearer to us and a hell of a lot less "stuff" farther away?
Instead, secular scientists have tried avoiding a center/edge due to religious implications.
Scientists don't buy into the center implication because there is no evidence for them to do so.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Confidence, posted 11-28-2006 8:26 AM Confidence has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by cavediver, posted 11-28-2006 1:31 PM Taz has replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3319 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 7 of 57 (366533)
11-28-2006 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by cavediver
11-28-2006 1:31 PM


cavediver writes:
Around a hypermassive black hole, the tidal forces at the horizon could be unnoticeable.
I highly doubt that's what he was after.
The black hole in this case is significantly different to the normal layman presentation of a black hole. "this makes no sense" is typically not a good defence against the physics of General Relatvity... very little of it makes sense!
I take his meaning of black hole as it is, an object with its mass so concentrated that its gravitational pull is infinitely strong and that nothing, not even light, can escape from it. How on earth... how in the universe are we expected to believe that the earth lies beneathe the event horizon and not get squashed?

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by cavediver, posted 11-28-2006 1:31 PM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by cavediver, posted 11-28-2006 2:59 PM Taz has replied
 Message 9 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-28-2006 4:44 PM Taz has not replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3319 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 11 of 57 (366582)
11-28-2006 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by cavediver
11-28-2006 2:59 PM


cavediver writes:
The gravitational "pull" of a black hole only becomes unbounded as you head towards the singularity. For a large enough black hole, you can be well within the horizon yet so far from the sigularity that you wouldn't be aware of the singularity... not yet anyway!
So, in other words, in Humphrey's universe, we could be falling into the singularity right now?

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by cavediver, posted 11-28-2006 2:59 PM cavediver has not replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3319 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 14 of 57 (366697)
11-29-2006 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Confidence
11-28-2006 11:20 PM


Confidence writes:
This is a misconception about black (& white) holes. Gravity forces, and density are not always huge.
If the gravitational pull isn't always huge, then by what miracle can a black hole maintain itself and not allow anything, even light, from escaping?
And in the beginning water was at the center, being compressed until nuclear reaction took place to cause the expansion (and perhaps the light which God said He made before the sun and stars).
The evidence for this being?
Funny how a theory can discover things, I thought people made the discovery.
Good nitpick there. I'll be more careful with my words next time.
In any case, the cosmic background also follows from Humphreys cosmology, since the physics are similar as that of the big bang. The only difference is the assumptions.
Please expand on this a little. You are simply making unsupported assertion for now.
So in Humphreys model, there is a ring of water around where the universe is held 'captive'. Like a giant wall.
Nice prediction there. I'll just wait for someone to find this wall of water that is suppose to surround our universe.
As for the density, I do not see how there should be more mass in the center. For the density will be the same at the beginning, before the expansion out of the 'white' hole, and as it comes out of the 'white' hole.
While black holes have been discovered, or rather cosmic objects that behave like black holes have been discovered, white holes are nothing but pure speculation. Here, you are using it as though it's fact. I'm simply not convinced.
But going back, according to Humphrey's model, there should be more mass in the center in order for enough mass concentrated in an area to produce black hole-like affects, like having an event horizon and time dilation. Without such concentration of mass, where's the immense gravity coming from?
Humphrey, in his book, suggest that the theory be called a theory not a fact.
And yet you are using concepts like white holes and the wall of water as if they were facts.
PS Is it water or ice that's suppose to contain our universe?

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This message is a reply to:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3319 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 45 of 57 (367364)
12-01-2006 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Hyroglyphx
12-01-2006 4:39 PM


Re: Look at you guys having all this fun without me
NJ writes:
Yes, but I want to know how they have come to this understanding. Of all the arguments I engage in on EvC, this is the least known to me.
Can you be more specific? What don't you get?

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-01-2006 4:39 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

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