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Author Topic:   A Guide to the tactics of Evolutionists
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 106 of 214 (367949)
12-06-2006 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Dr Adequate
12-06-2006 12:01 PM


Re: For Anyone Who's Interested
You are not accounting for the loss of genetic diversity, nor the continual process of losing genetic diversity that occurs over a long period of time. You have not shown that the rate of mutations is sufficient, nor proved that, to overcome this process of loss of diversity.
You have shown absolutely nothing, and yet do not appear to possess the intelligence to see that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-06-2006 12:01 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-06-2006 12:44 PM randman has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 107 of 214 (367950)
12-06-2006 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by randman
12-06-2006 12:30 PM


Re: you are dodging and weaving
The points you have been ignoring have been repeated ad nauseum to you, such as your claim that the small changes of microevolution add to macroevolution and how that most basic claim is not tested or backed up in reference to the process itself, except with simplistic nonsense that small changes must add up to the larger change.
So "simplistic" that you are apparently unable to argue against it.
You ignore the factors in the small changes that are moving in the wrong direction decreasing genetic diversity.
Once more, you are telling me fairy stories about my own opinions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by randman, posted 12-06-2006 12:30 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by randman, posted 12-06-2006 12:44 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 108 of 214 (367951)
12-06-2006 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by randman
12-06-2006 12:32 PM


Re: some helpful quotations
Once again, you are ignoring the argument entirely. It's not a matter of who thinks what, but that factual criticism of evo models are glossed over in a dishonest fashion by people like you that try to divert the argument from facts into pettiness.
But your quote mine doesn't contain any "factual criticism" for me to "gloss over".
Produce, from those quotes, one piece of evidence that you think contradicts the theory of evolution, and I shall respond to it.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by randman, posted 12-06-2006 12:32 PM randman has not replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 109 of 214 (367952)
12-06-2006 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Dr Adequate
12-06-2006 12:36 PM


Re: you are dodging and weaving
Take your game somewhere else then, Dr Adequate. I have been patient, and asked you to address the points in the OP and elsewhere, and though you finally tried one attempt at a fact-based post, I have no more interest in seeing the thread fouled up for others and have asked that your posting privileges on my threads in this forum be removed, per the rules of Showcase.
I feel there are others that, while they will argue against my position, will do so in a fruitful manner.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-06-2006 12:36 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-06-2006 12:50 PM randman has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
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Message 110 of 214 (367953)
12-06-2006 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by randman
12-06-2006 12:30 PM


Re: you are dodging and weaving
randman writes:
Since you have nothing to offer, please excuse yourself from this thread.
Is this a request to remove Dr Adequate's permissions for the [forum=-37] forum?

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by randman, posted 12-06-2006 12:30 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by randman, posted 12-06-2006 12:51 PM Admin has not replied
 Message 138 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 01-02-2007 5:14 PM Admin has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 111 of 214 (367954)
12-06-2006 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by randman
12-06-2006 12:35 PM


Re: For Anyone Who's Interested
You are not accounting for the loss of genetic diversity, nor the continual process of losing genetic diversity that occurs over a long period of time.
No. I have shown that this imaginary process doesn't happen in the case I've analysed.
You have not shown that the rate of mutations is sufficient, nor proved that, to overcome this process of loss of diversity.
That is exactly what I've shown. Whom do you hope to deceive by saying otherwise?
You have shown absolutely nothing, and yet do not appear to possess the intelligence to see that.
... says the man who claims that my model of what happens when you isolate populations doesn't take isolation into account.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by randman, posted 12-06-2006 12:35 PM randman has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 112 of 214 (367956)
12-06-2006 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by randman
12-06-2006 12:44 PM


Take your game somewhere else then, Dr Adequate. I have been patient, and asked you to address the points in the OP and elsewhere, and though you finally tried one attempt at a fact-based post, I have no more interest in seeing the thread fouled up for others and have asked that your posting privileges on my threads in this forum be removed, per the rules of Showcase.
I quite understand why you are too frightened to argue for your opinions or against mine.
I can also see why in the magical fantasy world in your head you like to pretend that I have not replied to your points, but I still cannot understand whom you hope to deceive by saying so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by randman, posted 12-06-2006 12:44 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by randman, posted 12-06-2006 12:53 PM Dr Adequate has replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 113 of 214 (367957)
12-06-2006 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Admin
12-06-2006 12:44 PM


Re: you are dodging and weaving
I went ahead and put in a request officially, and yes it is a request to remove him from my threads in Showcase. I think this can be a very productive forum, but not with Dr Adequate.
My view is he has avoided and evaded the reality of genetic loss which others do admit occurs via isolation, and his posting style, imo, is mostly not dealing with the facts raised. I am sure I am guilty, imo, of responding in-kind, and others may feel that I am the perpetuator.
I think, however, the points on the evo side can be made more effectively, and the debate more stick to the facts with others, such as WK and others that don't seem so prone to ignore the issues raised even though they disagree with me.
Thank you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Admin, posted 12-06-2006 12:44 PM Admin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-06-2006 12:57 PM randman has replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 114 of 214 (367958)
12-06-2006 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Dr Adequate
12-06-2006 12:50 PM


nothing to do with fear
I think anyone that seriously thinks I am frightened by others in debate or unwilling to take on challenging opponents is just not paying attention. No, it's just I really would prefer to debate someone sticking to the facts and moving the discussion forward. You have not been doing that, and so see ya later....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-06-2006 12:50 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-06-2006 12:58 PM randman has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 115 of 214 (367959)
12-06-2006 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by randman
12-06-2006 12:51 PM


Re: you are dodging and weaving
My view is he has avoided and evaded the reality of genetic loss which others do admit occurs via isolation...
I have proved that in the long term, if total population and mutation rate are constant, this increases genetic diversity.
Hello?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by randman, posted 12-06-2006 12:51 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by randman, posted 12-06-2006 1:03 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 116 of 214 (367960)
12-06-2006 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by randman
12-06-2006 12:53 PM


Re: nothing to do with fear
I think anyone that seriously thinks I am frightened by others in debate or unwilling to take on challenging opponents is just not paying attention. No, it's just I really would prefer to debate someone sticking to the facts and moving the discussion forward. You have not been doing that ...
Again, I ask whom do you hope to deceive?
I've been doing genetics. You've been telling me random falsehoods about my opinions. Oh, and the stuff about "prop airplanes" and "swimming to England".
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by randman, posted 12-06-2006 12:53 PM randman has not replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 117 of 214 (367962)
12-06-2006 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Dr Adequate
12-06-2006 12:57 PM


Re: you are dodging and weaving
So that accounts for extinctions, eh?
For the level of loss of genetic diversity making it more difficult for further evolution (as is probably the case with the cheetah)?
For the fact that the types of mutations are limited, and not unlimited, at any given point?
For how the fact that there are pressures limiting genetic diversity even while there are mutations being introduced gradually?
Moreover, you failed to realize that some of the quotes were quite germane to this very topic, and you clouded up most of your posts with non-factual, non-substantive posts. I am glad you FINALLY tried to prove your case....perhaps had you started out of the gate doing that, and engaging the points raised, your time here could have been more fruitful. Of course, that doesn't mean you proved anything, but at least you had a post trying.....unfortunately, I am not willing to wade through 10 posts to get to that one.
Others can argue the evo side more effectively and still acknowledge the substantive side of what I am saying, or at least properly understand the criticism and debate it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-06-2006 12:57 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-06-2006 1:16 PM randman has replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 118 of 214 (367965)
12-06-2006 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Wounded King
12-05-2006 7:08 PM


WK
WK, I look forward to your posts and references when you get back.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Wounded King, posted 12-05-2006 7:08 PM Wounded King has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 119 of 214 (367966)
12-06-2006 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by randman
12-06-2006 1:03 PM


So that accounts for extinctions, eh?
Sheesh, not only don't you understand the model, but you don't understand what question it answers. Your one resource seems to be your own incomprehension.
If your petition to escape my arguments is successful, I'm sure Wounded King will be able to explain the model to you. But not that you will understand the explanation.
I have found you an argument. I am not obliged to find you an understanding.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by randman, posted 12-06-2006 1:03 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by randman, posted 12-06-2006 1:21 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 120 of 214 (367967)
12-06-2006 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by randman
12-05-2006 10:26 PM


Me: Now, let the population be divided into two isolated gene pools of size pN and qN ...
Randman: You completely leave off the pressures towards isolation ...
Says it all, doesn't it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by randman, posted 12-05-2006 10:26 PM randman has not replied

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