Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Developing Countries: Birth Control?
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 61 of 99 (369091)
12-11-2006 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Jon
12-10-2006 1:54 PM


Re: Population control
quote:
You act like giving birth is the lowest form of activity around,
No, not at all.
It's just not the greatest achievement a girl or woman can aspire to, is all.
quote:
yet I think anyone who can bring another life into existance should feel a little proud, eh?
Sure, they can feel a little proud.
But that's not the same as it being the greatest thing they can aspire to.
Raising a child to be a happy, intelligent, giving member of society is a much greater achievement and IS one of the the greatest achievements anyone can aspire to.
Giving birth is merely biological.
Parenting the resulting child well is the part that is a true achievement.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Jon, posted 12-10-2006 1:54 PM Jon has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 62 of 99 (369092)
12-11-2006 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Jon
12-10-2006 11:48 PM


quote:
I am saying it to you in order to point out the fact that you are never going to win. All you can do is let people have all the damn kids they want and then let them die. You just cannot save the whole damn world.
So, because we cannot help ALL of the starving children, we shouldn't bother to help reduce the number of them living in poverty at all?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Jon, posted 12-10-2006 11:48 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Jon, posted 12-11-2006 5:21 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 63 of 99 (369095)
12-11-2006 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Jon
12-11-2006 7:12 AM


quote:
Not that I'm attempting to justify either approach here, not at all. Just to say that it is the government's money, and they can spend it how they choose.
No Jon, it is NOT the government's money.
That YOUR money. And MY money.
Tax dollars are the American people's money. And WE get to decide what we do with it through the representatives we elect to office and to the extent that we pay attention to how those representatives vote to spend our money.
quote:
Hell, I'd rather they would spend it on fixing the problems here at home!
You don't vote.
Therefore, you have absolutely NO right to have any opinion whasoever on what our elected officials do with tax funds.
Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Jon, posted 12-11-2006 7:12 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Jon, posted 12-11-2006 5:25 PM nator has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 64 of 99 (369100)
12-11-2006 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by nator
12-11-2006 4:48 PM


You want to reduce the number living in poverty by reducing the number living. That sickens me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by nator, posted 12-11-2006 4:48 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by nator, posted 12-11-2006 5:58 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 99 (369102)
12-11-2006 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by nator
12-11-2006 4:59 PM


Therefore, you have absolutely NO right to have any opinion
I guess you are right, I am a dog, a no good. I have no right to an opinion at all. After all, I don't vote (which to you seems the most godly thing any creature on Earth could do given the chance).
I don't vote, but I can still voice my opinion. A lot of people don't/can't vote, and they still find ways to vioce their opinions; to make their message heard. How did women ever gain the right to vote? They certainly didn't vote for officials that would give it to them. No, they just stated their opinions, in the paper, on the street, and I'm sure they would've done the same in forums just like this if it had been around back then.
There are MANY more ways to voice your opinion and to participate in government than to simply vote. Last year I actively participated in a campaign against cutting funding to higher education.
Of course, that didn't count, since I never voted.
J0N
p.s. Oh, and no more about voting, that's a different topic for a different thread!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by nator, posted 12-11-2006 4:59 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by nator, posted 12-11-2006 6:08 PM Jon has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 66 of 99 (369104)
12-11-2006 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Jon
12-11-2006 4:11 PM


Re: population & economy
developed nations strain the world because they produce greedy, selfish assholes who own 90% of the world's wealth and refuse to share and also refuse to use ethical and sustainable business practices.
and i'd love to share my paper, but i don't think anyone would appreciate me posting 35 pages of my semester.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Jon, posted 12-11-2006 4:11 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Jon, posted 12-12-2006 3:23 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 67 of 99 (369105)
12-11-2006 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Taz
12-11-2006 4:28 PM


Re: population & economy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Taz, posted 12-11-2006 4:28 PM Taz has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 68 of 99 (369112)
12-11-2006 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Jon
12-11-2006 5:21 PM


quote:
You want to reduce the number living in poverty by reducing the number living. That sickens me.
No.
I want to reduce the number of people in poverty by reducing the number of additional people added to the world's population, AND by encouraging people to adopt children who are already here.
But you didn't actually address my question.
Do you seriously believe that because we cannot save all starving children, we shouldn't try to do anything at all to help any of them?
Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Jon, posted 12-11-2006 5:21 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Jon, posted 12-12-2006 3:12 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 69 of 99 (369119)
12-11-2006 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Jon
12-11-2006 5:25 PM


quote:
I guess you are right, I am a dog, a no good.
I never said that.
I said that if you want the right to an opinion on what our elected officials do with OUR tax dollars, then you are required to participate in our democracy by voting.
quote:
I have no right to an opinion at all. After all, I don't vote (which to you seems the most godly thing any creature on Earth could do given the chance).
You know, getting all emotional and purposefully exaggerating your opponent's position to the point of misrepresentation only makes you look foolish and childish.
You don't have a right to an opinion because you chose to abdicate it by choosing not to vote.
As you say, it is your choice, but there are consequences to that choice.
You don't participate, you don't get to have an opinion. Or, perhaps more accurately, your opinion doesn't matter.
quote:
I don't vote, but I can still voice my opinion.
But then that just makes you an obnoxious whiner who complains but refuses to participate in the process he is complaining about.
quote:
A lot of people don't/can't vote, and they still find ways to vioce their opinions; to make their message heard. How did women ever gain the right to vote? They certainly didn't vote for officials that would give it to them. No, they just stated their opinions, in the paper, on the street, and I'm sure they would've done the same in forums just like this if it had been around back then.
LOL! I've got to hand it to you, Jon. It takes some pretty big cojones to compare your own apathy regarding participation in our democracy to women's suffrage activists.
quote:
There are MANY more ways to voice your opinion and to participate in government than to simply vote. Last year I actively participated in a campaign against cutting funding to higher education.
Of course, that didn't count, since I never voted.
Well, perhaps that's a start for you.
So, do you understand that it's not "the government's money" but OUR money, and the elected officials do not have the right to spend as they see fit without any reference to or consideration of the wishes of the American people?
Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.
Edited by schrafinator, : fixed spelling and added a clarification.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Jon, posted 12-11-2006 5:25 PM Jon has not replied

  
AdminNem
Inactive Member


Message 70 of 99 (369168)
12-11-2006 9:44 PM


Caution
This topic is starting to get a little heated. I understand that everyone here has some very strong opinions, but this is a friendly reminder to keep in perspective.
No one is in the hot seat, yet, but lets keep it civil.
Thank you for your cooperation

Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
  • General discussion of moderation procedures
  • Thread Reopen Requests
  • Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum
  • Proposed New (Great Debate) Topics
    New Members: to get an understanding of what makes great posts, check out:
  • "Post of the Month" Forum
  • "Columnist's Corner" Forum
    See also Forum Guidelines, [thread=-19,-112], and [thread=-17,-45]

  • Thou shalt not have any other Mods before Me

      
    miss-cheif
    Inactive Member


    Message 71 of 99 (369225)
    12-12-2006 2:45 AM
    Reply to: Message 54 by Jon
    12-11-2006 12:28 PM


    tsk tsk!
    [QS] Whilst the parents have a right to have children the children should have a right to live and the people giving birth to these children are taking that right away.
    To say that giving birth is taking away from the child's right to live is one of the most nonsensical things I've read here at EvC. Do you know how many nonsensical things get said around here? If you did, you'd realize just what it means to be at the top of the list. [QS] When you give birth to a child you KNOW is going to die due to you not being able to provide it with the things it needs to survive then yes you ARE taking that life away, you are giving a life and taking it away... So infact you summed it up perfectly, them giving birth is taking away the childs right to survive.. It doesnt sound nonsensical to me, infact i say you just about summed it up thank you for paraphrasing my argument!
    attacking people for there opinions looks foolish and immature, it makes your arguments look silly too.
    P.S One of the most nonsensical thing I read was an argument to a post that had f*ck off as an response, now thats nonsence!!!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 54 by Jon, posted 12-11-2006 12:28 PM Jon has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 74 by Jon, posted 12-12-2006 3:27 PM miss-cheif has replied

      
    Jon
    Inactive Member


    Message 72 of 99 (369335)
    12-12-2006 3:12 PM
    Reply to: Message 68 by nator
    12-11-2006 5:58 PM


    No one has yet addressed what I said, either. If everyone here gets their wish, and the people in developing nations stop reproducing, what will be left of those nations? When all those adults die of old age, who will be there to replace them? Army tanks? Oil rigs?
    C'mon now, your ideas that people in developing countries should just stop having kids are silly. You know, despite the huge number of kids they have, not all make it to adult-hood. What if they decided to have fewer? How many would make it to adult-hood then?
    I'll get back to answering all of your questions, when you all tell me why only the people in developed countries should be able to have children and further the existance of their society. And remember, if you adopt them out of that society, and in to your own, it does nothing to further their own society.
    J0N

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 68 by nator, posted 12-11-2006 5:58 PM nator has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 75 by nator, posted 12-12-2006 9:02 PM Jon has replied

      
    Jon
    Inactive Member


    Message 73 of 99 (369341)
    12-12-2006 3:23 PM
    Reply to: Message 66 by macaroniandcheese
    12-11-2006 5:31 PM


    Re: population & economy
    That's silly. These "greedy, selfish assholes" are the people who make the goods and services that you and I use everyday. Producing these goods and services in a manner that makes them affordable enough by all the people living in the developed countries is what adds strain to the world. It's not these people in particular that do it. It's the lifestyle of EVERYONE who lives in the countries. They are the ones who use tons of paper (killing trees), or drive millions of miles (poluting the air), or use electricity, throw things in the garbage, etc.
    It is the lifestyle that strains the world. Remember what I said earlier: that a child born in a developed country puts a far greater strain that a larger number born in a developing country? No where did I mention "greedy, selfish assholes who own 90% of the world's wealth..."
    Oh, and about the refusing to share thing; it's THEIR MONEY! Good greif! Bill Gates is the world's wealthiest man, and he worked his ass off for every penny he's worth! What the hell makes you think he owes anyone else a damn dime!? Oh, and despite that, he still DOES give out tons of money to charities around the world.
    Now, I know you may feel bad that you don't have that kind of money, but you can't expect them to give up their hard-earned money just because you don't have any. Some people always think they deserve a handout!
    J0N

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 66 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-11-2006 5:31 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 77 by nator, posted 12-12-2006 9:08 PM Jon has replied
     Message 86 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-13-2006 10:32 AM Jon has not replied

      
    Jon
    Inactive Member


    Message 74 of 99 (369342)
    12-12-2006 3:27 PM
    Reply to: Message 71 by miss-cheif
    12-12-2006 2:45 AM


    Re: tsk tsk!
    attacking people for there opinions looks foolish and immature, it makes your arguments look silly too.
    Are you sure? Because ever since I've opened this thread my opinion's been nothing but attacked. Everyone has been laying into me with both fangs out, and the only people who even partially agree with me have just dissapeared, probably wanting no part in the slamming you've been laying on me!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 71 by miss-cheif, posted 12-12-2006 2:45 AM miss-cheif has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 76 by nator, posted 12-12-2006 9:04 PM Jon has not replied
     Message 82 by miss-cheif, posted 12-13-2006 5:12 AM Jon has replied

      
    nator
    Member (Idle past 2169 days)
    Posts: 12961
    From: Ann Arbor
    Joined: 12-09-2001


    Message 75 of 99 (369403)
    12-12-2006 9:02 PM
    Reply to: Message 72 by Jon
    12-12-2006 3:12 PM


    quote:
    No one has yet addressed what I said, either. If everyone here gets their wish, and the people in developing nations stop reproducing, what will be left of those nations?
    I don't recall anyone, let alone everyone, wishing that people in developing countries would stop reproducing altogether, so that's a strawman.
    quote:
    C'mon now, your ideas that people in developing countries should just stop having kids are silly.
    Yeah, it is silly, which is why I didn't make that argument.
    quote:
    I'll get back to answering all of your questions, when you all tell me why only the people in developed countries should be able to have children and further the existance of their society.
    I don't think that.
    quote:
    And remember, if you adopt them out of that society, and in to your own, it does nothing to further their own society.
    Sure it does, by freeing up more resources for the people who still live in that developing country.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 72 by Jon, posted 12-12-2006 3:12 PM Jon has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 79 by Jon, posted 12-12-2006 10:30 PM nator has replied

      
    Newer Topic | Older Topic
    Jump to:


    Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

    ™ Version 4.2
    Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024