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Author Topic:   What is the biggest bible contradiction?
ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6265 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 140 of 311 (368296)
12-07-2006 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by AnswersInGenitals
12-07-2006 5:16 PM


Get a better translation ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 12-07-2006 5:16 PM AnswersInGenitals has not replied

ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6265 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 148 of 311 (368375)
12-08-2006 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by arachnophilia
12-07-2006 10:30 PM


J.C. de Moore writes in The Rise of Yahwism: "... the people of Ugarit believed in a kind of creatio continua, like the Egyptians and the Israelites."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by arachnophilia, posted 12-07-2006 10:30 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by arachnophilia, posted 12-08-2006 11:41 PM ConsequentAtheist has replied

ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6265 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 189 of 311 (369147)
12-11-2006 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by arachnophilia
12-08-2006 11:41 PM


quote:
it's also important to remember that the NAME of genesis is "b'reishit." the whole book is called "in the beginning." while titles in the torah are taken from the first word, it is a fitting title, as the book is entirely about the beginnings (the genesis) of all kinds of things. so "in the beginning" could refer to basically everything ...
  —arachnophilia
I hope that wasn't serious ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by arachnophilia, posted 12-08-2006 11:41 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by arachnophilia, posted 12-12-2006 1:59 AM ConsequentAtheist has replied

ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6265 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 203 of 311 (369242)
12-12-2006 7:39 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by arachnophilia
12-12-2006 1:59 AM


arachnophilia writes:
ConsequentAtheist writes:
arachnophilia writes:
it's also important to remember that the NAME of genesis is "b'reishit." the whole book is called "in the beginning." while titles in the torah are taken from the first word, it is a fitting title, as the book is entirely about the beginnings (the genesis) of all kinds of things. so "in the beginning" could refer to basically everything before the formation of formal judaism with moses.
I hope that wasn't serious ...
somewhat. i was just saying that it was a fitting (if unintentional) title.
I thought you were saying ...
  • it is important that
  • the "NAME" [sic!] of genesis is b'reishit
  • (even though Torah titles are no more than conventions)
  • therefore [?]
  • "in the beginning" could refer to basically everything
... as opposed to:
  • It's important to note that "b'reishit", the Hebrew name given to Genesis, simply reflects a convention and has no relevance to the discussion of the Torah and creation ex nihilo.
Edited by ConsequentAtheist, : No reason given.

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 Message 201 by arachnophilia, posted 12-12-2006 1:59 AM arachnophilia has replied

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ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6265 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 235 of 311 (369400)
12-12-2006 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by anastasia
12-12-2006 3:59 PM


Re: History, not theology, best explains the origin of the trinity idea
anastasia writes:
I am not insulting any scriptures and interpretations that have any authority, but those which have been proven to have no authority whatsoever, and are a purposeful misrepresentation of the text. If I tell you 'in the beginning was the clam' do I have some authority?
May I ask how you determine that an interpretation has authority worthy of respect or, conversely, has been "proven" to have no authority and is a "purposeful misrepresentation"?
Edited by ConsequentAtheist, : No reason given.

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 Message 230 by anastasia, posted 12-12-2006 3:59 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by anastasia, posted 12-12-2006 10:47 PM ConsequentAtheist has replied

ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6265 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 255 of 311 (369475)
12-13-2006 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 239 by anastasia
12-12-2006 10:47 PM


Re: History, not theology, best explains the origin of the trinity idea
anastasia, I asked for criteria, not examples. Again: how do you determine that an interpretation has authority worthy of respect or, conversely, has been "proven" to have no authority and is a "purposeful misrepresentation"?

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 Message 239 by anastasia, posted 12-12-2006 10:47 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by anastasia, posted 12-13-2006 12:17 PM ConsequentAtheist has replied

ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6265 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 267 of 311 (369806)
12-14-2006 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by anastasia
12-13-2006 12:17 PM


Re: History, not theology, best explains the origin of the trinity idea
anastasia writes:
ConsequentAtheist writes:
anastasia, I asked for criteria, not examples. Again: how do you determine that an interpretation has authority worthy of respect or, conversely, has been "proven" to have no authority and is a "purposeful misrepresentation"?
So, criteria;
  1. as accurate a translation (contradictions included) as possible
  2. a scholarly translation, not a 'revealed' one
  3. an interpretation based on accurate translation; even if it were blatantly paraphrased or geared toward a specific population it should reflect the meaning of the original
Hope that answers your question!
Yes, thank you.
So, what you've told us is
  1. the authority of an interpretation is solely a function of the accuracy of the translation, and,
  2. conversely, an interpretation can be branded a "purposeful misrepresentation" solely as the consequence of it being based on an inaccurate translation.
On the one hand, you bless disparate interpretations of the same translation with coequal respect. On the other, you insist that all interpretation based on errors in translation are disingenuous. This is, of course, absolute rubbish.
Could you offer an authorative interpretation of Deuteronomy 32:8?

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 Message 256 by anastasia, posted 12-13-2006 12:17 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by anastasia, posted 12-15-2006 1:40 AM ConsequentAtheist has replied

ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6265 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 271 of 311 (369868)
12-15-2006 6:03 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by anastasia
12-15-2006 1:40 AM


Re: History, not theology, best explains the origin of the trinity idea
anastasia writes:
Please, I prefer to keep the rest of this in context. I don't insist that all interpretations based on errors are disingenuous. I insist that the ones previously mentioned (do I have to mention them again?) are indeed purposeful misrepresentations after the fact.
What you prefer and what you insist are no doubt important to you. What is important to me is an understanding of your selection criteria about which you are apparently confused.

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 Message 269 by anastasia, posted 12-15-2006 1:40 AM anastasia has replied

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 Message 272 by anastasia, posted 12-15-2006 12:05 PM ConsequentAtheist has not replied

ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6265 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 286 of 311 (370162)
12-16-2006 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by Rob
12-15-2006 10:36 PM


Don't forget that Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place." (John 18:36)
OK - and you don't forget that the above is a faith-based assertion: there is little reason to believe that there is a recoverable historical Jesus and absolutely no reason to believe in either the historicity or the fidelity of a dialogue penned 6 to 9 decades after the purported events by an apologist who may well have been an eyewitness to absolutely nothing of relevance.

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 Message 285 by Rob, posted 12-15-2006 10:36 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by Rob, posted 12-16-2006 11:38 AM ConsequentAtheist has replied

ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6265 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 288 of 311 (370199)
12-16-2006 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by Rob
12-16-2006 11:38 AM


I take that as a sincere and heartfelt response and respect it as such.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by Rob, posted 12-16-2006 11:38 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by Rob, posted 12-16-2006 1:16 PM ConsequentAtheist has not replied

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