What is the biggest bible contradiction?

Oh Ringo...So... You're saying that in order to be human... (In other words to qualify)... one must sin???It isn't enough that we must endure the temptation?I think the most profound thing about the Bible is the message that humanity was created to be like Jesus!The message is that being human is reflecting the power of God. And in order to reflect that power... one must be in touch with it's source.Man cannot look to himself for a power that only originates with God.It seems to me that the thing you find sinful, is the declaration that we were meant to be perfect, and that if we are not, then we are sinners.Yet... you let the cat out of the bag my dear laddy... You acknowledged that to err is human. In other words, you acknowledged that you are a sinner.It is very interesting. Very interesting indeed, that you find sin, a necessary component of being Human.Anastasia is correct. It is not impossible to not sin. The only thing it requires, is compete submission to God's will.That you acknowledge that sin is sin is too rich!Talk about a contradiction... you say that sin is sin, yet make provision for it as a prerequsite for humanity. If that were the case my dear Ringo... it would not be sin! It would simply be who we are.That is the question isn't it... Who are we?The answer is found, in the person of Jesus Christ!Are you saying that He cheated by being God?That's a rather foolish charge don't you think? Kind of like dimissing the school teacher's credentials because the teacher already knows the subject.Shouldn't we be glad that the teacher can teach from a position of authority? After all, who wants to be led by an equal?

Yes Brian! You got it!All except for Him.And as sons of God, Christians are the seed you define with the tenacity of a teacher of the law (lawyer).Christians now inherit (inheritance is another symbol of sonship) eternal life in Christ. It's an 'adoption' in the New Testament.It's a new birth into the divine family.The first century con man bit is so fitting... Apart from God, that is exactly what we are, since God is necessary to illuminate reality for us. God illuminates reality to us in many ways. The only thing we lacked was someone to illuminate for us what humanity really is.Emanuel (God with us) accomplished everything so that we may become sons of God.You are right about something Brian... If Jesus was not the messiah (the Christ) then he is the antichrist. If He was not telling the truth, then He is a deceiver. He made it simple for us to figure out. He reduced the equation to black and white. He spoke in terms that anyone honest could understand. He is either a liar, or He is God in the flesh.There is only Christ, and one antichrist. Those who hear the truth follow the truth. Those who do not, follow their father.Personally, I think you are the deceiver Brian (and it goes for me as well). Apart from God we are one head, of a beast in the sea of mankind. We are one snake in a brood of vipers. We are one fish, in the streams of Pharoah; One scale, on the flesh of leviathan. We lie hidden among the vegitation (the Poplars and fig leaves).But as Plants need photosynthesis for growth, so those of us who are spiritual need truth-synthesis to flourish. And we who are spiritual, see you hiding in our midst. We do not condemn. We ask that you come from behind your concealed position as we once did and bask in the sunshine. You're only concealed in your own delusion. You are not concealed to God or those who's eyes are open.It is your inheritance to gain. It is why you were created... to be a son and not a pauper.

Keep your chin up friend.Acts 13:41
"'Look, you scoffers, wonder and perish, for I am going to do something in your days that you would never believe, even if someone told you.'"http://EvC Forum: What is the biggest bible contradiction? -->EvC Forum: What is the biggest bible contradiction?

I think the manner of His death gives us the necessary evidence to believe He did, in fact, say those radical things. In fact, I am despised for actually believing those radical things.That's why they crucified Him. They didn't hate Him for speaking nicely. He told the truth! And few want to hear that. It is an offense to our own interpretation of reality, which we hold dear to our hearts more than any treasure.I said:

quote:

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There is only Christ, and one antichrist.

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And you replied:My point exactly! The Antichrist is not a person Equinox. It is a spirit. There is a true prophet; the Holy Spirit of Truth that is of God, and the false prophet (the Spirit of antichrist).A Holy Trinity, and an unholy trinity.The devil is a master imposter... he cannot create truth, he can only copy the real thing.Now today, when people talk about the 'quote/unquote' antichrist, they typically are meaning the 'one world' dictator who will dominate as prophesied. But even this man is only an incarnation of the same spirit of deception. He will be an incarnation, as jesus was an incarnation, only of a different spirit. He will be Satan incarnate.And that doesn't mean he will appear to be an evil person. He will appear as an angel of light! He will be a savior in the minds of millions.

If we are flawed, then you must presuppose a correct state of being. You cannot be flawed as a presupposition. We are either correct, or we are not!And if we are not correct, then where do we look to find an example of correction? Well... Your quite right!
Well put Ringo.It all revolves around being able to understand that God was willing to sacrifice His own (human) life, in order to show that this life was not all that we should cling to. That real life is something greater.But in order for Him to do that, he must have been privy to knowledge that only He posessed.He knew He would rise again, and the human side of Him was willing to submit to the Father as an example to us. He proved who he was by not using His divine power for this human life.He gave confidence and proof to those of us with little faith, that reality was more than meets the eye.Ironically, He opened our eyes, to what lie beyond our eyes.But it isn't enough for some...Jesus told a parable that ended with these words: Luke 16: 31 "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"

Relative to what?Are you not forced by this way of thinking to use the unimproved unit (flaw) as a means of measuring the better (or more correct) position of the unit?In terms of morailty and personal responsibility, you are using the least common denominator as your absolute by which to measure your own position.That whole process is better known as worship. It is keeping always before our mind, the absolute by which we conceive our own place. It is the same way an aircraft uses instruments in the fog. There is also no reason to assume that it does not, other than the observation of the fact that our natural world seems to ultimately be in a state of increasing decay and disorder. But this does not bode well for any assertion that an improvement (as assumed to be increasing order) reflects the underlying trend of the natural universe. What you call a contradiction, I see as a revelation to the desire of my inner most being; that even in the face of misery and decay, order will prevail.It's not a contradiction in the larger sense (eternal). It is only a contradiction in time and finitude.What you see as human, I see as death. What you see as inhuman, I see as the real humanity that my heart longs for. And Jesus is the light of my life. Without Him, I am only a beast.Feel free to remain a beast (you certainly are free to do so), and confine yourself to being better than whoever you think is inferior to you. I intend to encourage those who are in the same shoes as myself that they need not stay in that condition because the creator has come and opened the door to the eternal life.Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

Yes, precisely! And the precursors (prophets) of antichrist are all of the same spirit (untruth disguised as enlightenment).Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

Please pardon my intrusion...It's not a contradiction in that sense Anastasia. It is a paradox. From a partial perspective (finite) it appears contradictory. In the whole [or holy] perspective it is complete and not only harmonious, but also glorious!

I understand your concerns. Btw, I think Anastasia is partly correct in her response to you. It is a result of interpreting the sciptures as per a pattern already established. I tend to speak as though this is the way it is in each subject I cover. Of course I believe that (in those cases), but I am aware that there are differences in opinion even among those I believe are genuine Christians. I had a very difficult time with some of this at one time. I am sorry for not showing more consideration for the sensibility of others.By the same token, I would be dishonest to not share what I believe to be the truth!Now to defend my position, I believe that the Bible interprets itself. So as part of that belief I assume that the Bible was written with a particular interpretation in mind. I don't think anyone alive other than Jesus, fully grasped it's depth and cohesion.Jesus spoke of the spirit of truth (the counsellor or the Holy Spirit) coming and guiding us into all truth. That Spirit is the lens by which the scriptures must be interpreted. It's not something we can invoke by our own will or subjection.We tend to get caught up in whether this interpretation or that is the correct one. What astounds me, is that there are cases where I think multiple interpretations are simultaneously correct. As has been said (I remember hearing it somewhere), there is something in the scriptures for everyone. A child can understand it, and others can spend their whole lives discovering the overlapping consistency of the Bible. I remember Billy Graham in his book 'The Holy Spirit' make the case that after reading the Bible hundreds of times over his lifetime, he still gets out of it a little more of the picture each time. Just makes it all the more supernatural to me, and dismisses the notion of human wisdom alone being the source. It's just too deep for us to have invented. But at the same time, we were created to understand it, so in that sense it rings a chord, if we are willing.As for the Christ /antichrist simplification that I offered, consider that Jesus said, "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters (Matthew 12:30).And consider 1 John 4:3 ...but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.Don't forget that Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place." (John 18:36)So this black and white assesment essentially boils down to all of us being of the world (of the antichrist by implication) until we accept Jesus as Lord.Jesus says this in another astonishing claim as well. We are all familliar with John 3:16, but how many overlook the whole context?John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.This is very difficult stuf in the philosophical climate in the West today Equinox. In my opinion, it is not so difficult to understand logically, but it is simply not acceptable to people. Then again, it was not acceptable then, and we crucified him.So if you will permit me, I contend that I am not cherry picking the scriptures at all. In fact, I am taking them all in context as a whole story that reflects a whole being (Jesus) that fulfilled it.Can you accept that answer in at least the effect defending why I believe what I said, even if you do not?

Of course.. I have never forgotten.My only answer for this is as a witness. It is not admissable in the framework you have restricted it to.I once thought that these Christian folk were mad and living in some kind of denial. But at the same time I was having personal problems of my own. Mathematically, I can't tell you where guilt comes from; it is a feeling. It is however based on histroical facts and based on the actions and results involved.All I can tell you is that as rediculous as it was, I thought a grain of it was true, and perhaps more than I knew. So I took that leap of faith and prayed to this God and this Jesus fellow. It was a grain of faith mind you, not a Camel.To my utter astonishment, I was given some kind of grid, or solution to a puzzle known as reality. It was as though I understood the language or formula. One day, just a confusing book, the next, like I knew it all along. It is what confirms for me the truth in it. And that is how I know it is true. There is more, but you would find it far more offensive. I am keeping this as scientific as posible as just one witness. And then when I read the Bible, it was the same pattern.Perhaps it is a delusion. Perhpas this Jesus fellow has hypnotized me by some rare and unique method now emplyed by cult leaders.
All I know, is that it is a delusion that makes me as able to understand a man that lived in ancient history as well as I know my best friend today. And I trust Him.It's something I cannot just set aside. I don't know if you would be willing to be banished or incarcerated for your beliefs, but I am for the first time in my life.When you meet Him, it's no longer faith. Faith is what it takes to ask to meet Him.I was also shocked to see that all of this is right there in the Bible. And somehow the religion that I grew up in had all but neglected to mention that it is verifiable in this way.Not the scientific method as defined today, but a scientific method nonetheless. I don't expect to be accepted within the framework of modern science. I just would like to be allowed to speak. Alternative perspectives are always healthy when searching for answers.Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

Thank you.

I can see that we have a lot of common ground with which to move forward

Obvious impossibilities are that which an omniscient being can describe. Unless you are omniscient, I'm afraid there is nothing you can define as absolute.

Yes they are. Exactly! In which case he is a liar, but not guilty of wrongdiong and in which case he is not God... Inwhich case he is not God.. In which case he was not God...Perhaps I would have better served the point to say that Jesus is either God, or He is not.

May I suggest C.S. Lewis' book called miracles? It really does address the issue of the 'miraculous' well.But to answer your question... I think it is very likely, but not necessarily in the context of historical research (whatever that means).Who writes the history, makes all the difference in the world.It's funny you know? Even if you witnessed a 'miracle', I wonder if you would attribute it to God? Jesus said that even if someone was raised from the dead, that 'they' (the unbelieing) would still not believe.Some people think that there must be a natural explanation to everything. If that is true, then the natural world would be absolute! And yet somehow, it is the naturalists who dismiss the absolute.