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Author Topic:   Who can explain following:
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 16 of 82 (369930)
12-15-2006 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Dongsheng Zhang
12-15-2006 1:00 PM


Re: Ringo
Dongsheng Zhang writes:
In fact, when a whirlwind or tornado occurs in the northern hemisphere, its helical-direction is always counterclockwise just like the right-handed helix.
I can appreciate your unfamiliarity with the English language, but the passage in Ezekiel clearly states that the whirlwind "came out" of the north, not that it was "in" the northern hemisphere. The reference to "north" has nothing to do with "handedness". It refers to the direction the whirlwind was moving macroscopically, not to it's internal motion.
You should also be aware that the handedness of a helix (or anything else) is just a convention - i.e. your right thumb points "north" when your fingers follow the lines of force, etc. How could Ezekiel possibly have known about our modern (arbitrary) convention of handedness? And why would he speak in terms that wouldn't be understood until thousands of years later?

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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5981 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 17 of 82 (369936)
12-15-2006 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
12-13-2006 6:04 PM


Re: Utter nonsense and classic misrepresentation
Astonishing that this debate has been going for 1600+ years!
Augustine of Hippo writes:
“It not infrequently happens that something about the earth, about the sky, about other elements of this world, about the motion and rotation or even the magnitude and distances of the stars, about definite eclipses of the sun and moon, about the passage of years and seasons, about the nature of animals, of fruits, of stones, and of other such things, may be known with the greatest certainty by reasoning or by experience, even by one who is not a Christian. It is too disgraceful and ruinous, though, and greatly to be avoided, that he [the non-Christian] should hear a Christian speaking so idiotically on these matters, and as if in accord with Christian writings, that he might say that he could scarcely keep from laughing when he saw how totally in error they are. In view of this and in keeping it in mind constantly while dealing with the book of Genesis, I have, insofar as I was able, explained in detail and set forth for consideration the meanings of obscure passages, taking care not to affirm rashly some one meaning to the prejudice of another and perhaps better explanation." (The Literal Interpretation of Genesis 1:19-20, Chapt. 19 [AD 408]) With the scriptures it is a matter of treating about the faith. For that reason, as I have noted repeatedly, if anyone, not understanding the mode of divine eloquence, should find something about these matters [about the physical universe] in our books, or hear of the same from those books, of such a kind that it seems to be at variance with the perceptions of his own rational faculties, let him believe that these other things are in no way necessary to the admonitions or accounts or predictions of the scriptures. In short, it must be said that our authors knew the truth about the nature of the skies, but it was not the intention of the Spirit of God, who spoke through them, to teach men anything that would not be of use to them for their salvation." (ibid, 2:9)”
It is more astonishing that the fathers of the Reformation relied so heavily on Augustine's teachings, and yet at some point their spiritual descendants abandoned them.
God does not intend to reveal to us the workings of science, nor to make salvation available only to the scientifically learned. If there is a devil, I am sure he finds it hilarious that this type of studying of the bible has caused so many to lose their faith in God altogether.
I don't believe God has encoded knowledge of DNA, any more than He has encoded Shakespeare. It is not His intention to explain science.
If there are at times astonishing coincidences between the manifestations of God in the Bible, and natural phenomena, then perhaps we can still say that science at times can explain God, and that it is not surprising to find parallels or similarities between His creations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 12-13-2006 6:04 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Chiroptera, posted 12-15-2006 2:42 PM anastasia has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 82 (369940)
12-15-2006 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by anastasia
12-15-2006 2:11 PM


Re: Utter nonsense and classic misrepresentation
Well, there are also people who think Isaiah 40:22 describes a spherical earth in a cosmologically expanding universe.
On the other hand, I admit that at least that is a little more reasonable than this "Ezekiel was attacked by a giant strand of DNA" thing going on here.

Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied. -- Otto von Bismarck

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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5981 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 19 of 82 (369949)
12-15-2006 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Chiroptera
12-15-2006 2:42 PM


Re: Utter nonsense and classic misrepresentation
Then maybe Isaiah 40:12 = Big Bang?
'who has comprehended the earth in a measure?'
kidding...

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 82 (370137)
12-16-2006 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by anastasia
12-15-2006 3:36 PM


Re: Utter nonsense and classic misrepresentation
Then maybe Isaiah 40:12 = Big Bang?
He's referring to the passage that says,
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth." -Isaiah 40:22
There's also another one that seems to speak about gravity ling before anyone knew of such a concept. Its in Job somewhere, but I can't seem to find the passage. It says, (not sure if its verbatim)
"He stretches out the northern sky and suspends the earth over nothing." -Job something:something

"With derision the atheist points out that there can be no God because this world is so unfair. Without hesitation, I concur with him. Indeed, we live in an unfair world because of all sorts of social ills and perils. I must not contend with such a sentiment because it is factual-- we don't live in a fair world. Grace is unambiguous proof that we live in an unfair world. I received salvation when I deserved condemnation. Yes, indeed this world is unfair." -Andrew Jaramillo-

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Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-16-2006 1:49 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 25 by Buzsaw, posted 12-17-2006 8:29 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 21 of 82 (370143)
12-16-2006 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Hyroglyphx
12-16-2006 1:17 AM


The Discovery Of Gravity
There's also another one that seems to speak about gravity ling before anyone knew of such a concept.
... i.e. before Ug the caveman proposed his famous theory: "Ug drop rock, rock fall down." You will recall that his chief critic, Ik, a Neanderthal, replied: "Gravity, him just theory."
Ug showed him the thing with the rock again. "That just microfalling," said Ik. "Show me with rock so heavy no-one can lift it, then I believe you."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-16-2006 1:17 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-17-2006 1:34 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 82 (370325)
12-17-2006 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Dr Adequate
12-16-2006 1:49 AM


Re: The Discovery Of Gravity
Ug showed him the thing with the rock again. "That just microfalling," said Ik. "Show me with rock so heavy no-one can lift it, then I believe you.
Cute.... Would Ug have understood that that the earth is round and that its suspended? Everybody knew that what goes up must come down long before Newton. What they didn't understand is why.

"With derision the atheist points out that there can be no God because this world is so unfair. Without hesitation, I concur with him. Indeed, we live in an unfair world because of all sorts of social ills and perils. I must not contend with such a sentiment because it is factual-- we don't live in a fair world. Grace is unambiguous proof that we live in an unfair world. I received salvation when I deserved condemnation. Yes, indeed this world is unfair." -Andrew Jaramillo-

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-16-2006 1:49 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Cthulhu, posted 12-17-2006 5:19 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 26 by jar, posted 12-17-2006 8:57 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 31 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-18-2006 2:53 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Cthulhu
Member (Idle past 5880 days)
Posts: 273
From: Roe Dyelin
Joined: 09-09-2003


Message 23 of 82 (370342)
12-17-2006 5:19 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Hyroglyphx
12-17-2006 1:34 AM


Re: The Discovery Of Gravity
Ug lived near the ocean, so he did know that the world was a sphere.

This message is a reply to:
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AdminBuzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 82 (370351)
12-17-2006 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by ringo
12-14-2006 12:08 PM


Re: Who can explain the second?
Hi Ringo. Nice to have you back among us. I see 2C as closely enough related to topic so as to be considered on topic for the purpose of this thread to discuss the Ezekiel phenomenon, especially since it may have some bearing on the points of the OP. Perhaps if another moderator sees it differently they could weigh in here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by ringo, posted 12-14-2006 12:08 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by ringo, posted 12-17-2006 11:31 AM AdminBuzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 82 (370353)
12-17-2006 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Hyroglyphx
12-16-2006 1:17 AM


Re: Stretching of North
Job 26:7 your reference for the stretching out of the North.
Edited by Buzsaw, : change title

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-16-2006 1:17 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

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jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 26 of 82 (370356)
12-17-2006 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Hyroglyphx
12-17-2006 1:34 AM


Re: The Discovery Of Gravity
Likely since Ug was as ignorant of reality as the Bible authors. Now though we know that the earth is not round nor is it suspended.
The various authors of the Bible certainly tried to explain the world they knew, included "Just So Stories", but they always got it wrong.
The authors of the Bible should not be faulted for getting it wrong.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 27 of 82 (370374)
12-17-2006 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by AdminBuzsaw
12-17-2006 8:16 AM


Re: Who can explain the second?
AdminBuzsaw writes:
I see 2C as closely enough related to topic so as to be considered on topic for the purpose of this thread....
I have no problem with 2C being on-topic for this thread. I'm wary of the stated topic of the thread being avoided by branching out into related areas. When one of the key premises is refuted, the originator should address that point, not sally forth into other areas.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by AdminBuzsaw, posted 12-17-2006 8:16 AM AdminBuzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by AdminBuzsaw, posted 12-17-2006 12:06 PM ringo has not replied
 Message 29 by jar, posted 12-17-2006 12:06 PM ringo has not replied

  
AdminBuzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 82 (370379)
12-17-2006 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by ringo
12-17-2006 11:31 AM


Re: Topic Drift
Thanks Ringo. We'll try to see to it that it doesn't stray beyond a reasonable perameter.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by ringo, posted 12-17-2006 11:31 AM ringo has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 29 of 82 (370381)
12-17-2006 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by ringo
12-17-2006 11:31 AM


But that is the first step in the Gish Gallop?
When one of the key premises is refuted, the originator should address that point, not sally forth into other areas.
Are you actually saying that you think Biblical Nonsense should be defended instead of simply making yet another truly silly assertion?
Prediction:
Dong will NEVER support any of his nonsense but just continue posting the same stuff he would not defend in Message 1.
Just a guess but expect 13 more ridiculous and unsupported posts from Dong on this thread and then he will be off to some other flight of fantasy.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by ringo, posted 12-17-2006 11:31 AM ringo has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 82 (370498)
12-17-2006 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Buzsaw
12-17-2006 8:29 AM


Job and gravity
That would be the one.. Thank you Mr. Buz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Buzsaw, posted 12-17-2006 8:29 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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