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Author Topic:   What is the biggest bible contradiction?
Brian
Member (Idle past 4981 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 279 of 311 (369948)
12-15-2006 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by anastasia
12-15-2006 1:46 AM


He is both at the same time.
Which would make him somewhat more than human.
A man who is also a God is more than human.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by anastasia, posted 12-15-2006 1:46 AM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by anastasia, posted 12-15-2006 4:07 PM Brian has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4981 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 290 of 311 (370403)
12-17-2006 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Rob
12-12-2006 9:56 AM


Yes Brian! You got it!
I wasn’t born until 1963!
All except for Him.
I think Jesus sinned more than the average guy.
The first century con man bit is so fitting...
I know it fits Jesus so well, at least the version of Jesus created in the Gospels anyway.
Apart from God, that is exactly what we are,
I think the majority of mankind have far higher morals that the bloodthirsty Yahweh.
since God is necessary to illuminate reality for us.
If your reality was illuminated then you would know that there is no such thing as God. I can only conclude that you are deluding yourself.
Emanuel (God with us) accomplished everything so that we may become sons of God.
Pity Jesus was never called ”Emanuel’, it might have at least given Him an outside chance of being a messiah.
You are right about something Brian... If Jesus was not the messiah (the Christ) then he is the antichrist.
I didn’t say that though!
I just said He wasn’t the Messiah, the Bible and history pay testimony to that. I find it difficult to believe that anyone who has studied the Old Testament can possibly consider Jesus as the Messiah.
If He was not telling the truth, then He is a deceiver.
The thing is, we have no idea of what He is quoted as saying is actually what He did say. The Jesus of the first century could be oblivious to all the crap in the NT that is attributed to Him.
He is either a liar, or He is God in the flesh.
Of course these aren’t the only two possibilities.
He could be a liar.
He could be God.
He could have been mad.
He could have been a figment of someone’s imagination.
He could have been misrepresented in the Gospels.
I’m not sure which one I’d go for. I think the only one I could exclude with any certainty is the God option.
The big problem is the poor quality of the sources that we have. The Gospels themselves are hugely unreliable, as they are contradictory, contain obvious impossibilities, are rife with historical inaccuracies, and we have no idea who wrote any of them.
There is only Christ,
Well, there were many Christs in the OT, every Jewish king was a ”chirst’.
Personally, I think you are the deceiver Brian (and it goes for me as well).
You need to believe this to maintain your delusion, no point in having an open mind is there?
Apart from God we are one head, of a beast in the sea of mankind. We are one snake in a brood of vipers. We are one fish, in the streams of Pharoah; One scale, on the flesh of leviathan. We lie hidden among the vegitation (the Poplars and fig leaves).
Ever tried self esteem classes?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Rob, posted 12-12-2006 9:56 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by Rob, posted 12-17-2006 2:42 PM Brian has replied
 Message 294 by Rob, posted 12-17-2006 3:05 PM Brian has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4981 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 292 of 311 (370406)
12-17-2006 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by Rob
12-17-2006 2:42 PM


Well, at least I have given you other options apart from Lord or lunatic.
There's also the historical inaccuracies to consider, and the obvious impossibilities (such as the dead walking the streets and the impossible three hour eclipse).
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by Rob, posted 12-17-2006 2:42 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by Rob, posted 12-17-2006 2:57 PM Brian has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4981 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 295 of 311 (370413)
12-17-2006 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by Rob
12-17-2006 2:57 PM


I'm afraid there is nothing you can define as absolute. Obvious impossibilities are that which an omniscient being can describe. Unless you are omniscient, I'm afraid there is nothing you can define as absolute.
Yes, but we need evidence with which to come to conclusions. Take the dead walking the streets after Jesus died. How likely is it that this is true, in the context of historical research?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Rob, posted 12-17-2006 2:57 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 297 by Rob, posted 12-17-2006 3:51 PM Brian has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4981 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 296 of 311 (370414)
12-17-2006 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by Rob
12-17-2006 3:05 PM


In which case he is a liar, but not guilty of wrongdiong and in which case he is not God...
That doesn't make Him a liar. He could have genuinely thought that He was God. Lying is deliberately decieving someone.
Perhaps I would have better served the point to say that Jesus is either God, or He is not.
Yes, this would have been better.
Of course, any one of us could be God, or not.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by Rob, posted 12-17-2006 3:05 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by Rob, posted 12-17-2006 3:55 PM Brian has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4981 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 302 of 311 (370421)
12-17-2006 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by Rob
12-17-2006 3:51 PM


May I suggest C.S. Lewis' book called miracles? It really does address the issue of the 'miraculous' well.
I have read a lot of Lewis, and he is a very skilful writer, very easy to read. I have enjoyed a few of his books, in fact I only finished reading 'Surprised by Joy' on Friday. I think he was certain to return to Christianity and he basically talked himself into it. But that doesn't take away from his quality as a writer.
But to answer your question... I think it is very likely, but not necessarily in the context of historical research (whatever that means).
It means how can we verify the likelihood that the event happened. How do we go about checking if it was possible? Have we anything to compare it with, do any other writers mention it, is it something that was likely to happen unnoticed?
Who writes the history, makes all the difference in the world.
of course it does, all of history is constructed by the human mind.
It's funny you know? Even if you witnessed a 'miracle', I wonder if you would attribute it to God?
We would first have to define what a miracle is and if what happened fits into that defintion, or if there was a natural explanation for it. Even if it was a 'miracle' it doesn't follow that there is a God.
Jesus said that even if someone was raised from the dead, that 'they' (the unbelieing) would still not believe.
Of course He would have to say that, covering the bases.
Maybe if Jesus came to earth and performed this task under scientific conditions then He would be taken seriously. But, as it stands, Jesus isn't really any more credible than any other magician.
Some people think that there must be a natural explanation to everything.
Well, to be fair, there always is.
If that is true, then the natural world would be absolute!
It may well be.
But, isn't the natural world the only world we can examine and verify?
And yet somehow, it is the naturalists who dismiss the absolute.
Christians have their absolutes as well you know.
However, when we examine the Gospels and add up the errors in them, including the historical inaccuracies, it is really only fair to reject them as reliable. There may well be some truth in them, but I think it would be difficult to weed these things out.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by Rob, posted 12-17-2006 3:51 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by Rob, posted 12-17-2006 4:11 PM Brian has replied
 Message 307 by Rob, posted 12-17-2006 4:14 PM Brian has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4981 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 306 of 311 (370425)
12-17-2006 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by Rob
12-17-2006 4:11 PM


The hound is on your trail Brian...
Nah.
I was set free from the myth of Christ a long time ago.
I hope you don't waste your whole life away self deluding yourself into thinking some ancient campfire tales are true.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by Rob, posted 12-17-2006 4:11 PM Rob has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4981 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 308 of 311 (370427)
12-17-2006 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 307 by Rob
12-17-2006 4:14 PM


I think we are within topic range
But the thread will be closed soon as there's a software problem when threads go over 300 messages.
I'm sure there will be a part two though.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by Rob, posted 12-17-2006 4:14 PM Rob has not replied

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