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Author
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Topic: Morality Decreasing With Time?
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member
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Message 106 of 305 (371178)
12-20-2006 2:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 59 by Rob
12-19-2006 3:54 PM
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Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
1=1=2... I just quotemined an uncountable number of textbooks. Actually, I'm reasonably sure you didn't. Or if you did, they were really bad textbooks.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 59 by Rob, posted 12-19-2006 3:54 PM | | Rob has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 131 by Rob, posted 12-20-2006 11:48 PM | | Dan Carroll has not replied |
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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5974 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
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Message 107 of 305 (371180)
12-20-2006 3:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 105 by jar
12-20-2006 2:48 PM
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Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
jar writes: Once again, what are those Absolutes? I thought I already told you...L.O.V.E. We have admitted it might be an absolute. We have discussed if it is relative. We have discussed if it is open to interpretation. If you wish to have a circular arguement you are more than welcome to re-read the entire thread to your heart's content.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 105 by jar, posted 12-20-2006 2:48 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 108 by jar, posted 12-20-2006 3:16 PM | | anastasia has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
see Message 95 and the discussion from there. You claimed Love is an absolute. When challenged you admitted it was subject to interpretation and personal. If it is subject to interpretation and personal, how is it an Absolute? What does any of that have to do with "Morality Decreasing With Time?"
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 107 by anastasia, posted 12-20-2006 3:11 PM | | anastasia has replied |
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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5974 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
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Message 109 of 305 (371187)
12-20-2006 3:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 108 by jar
12-20-2006 3:16 PM
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Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
jar writes: You claimed Love is an absolute. When challenged you admitted it was subject to interpretation and personal. If it is subject to interpretation and personal, how is it an Absolute? I did indeed put forth 'love thy neighbor' as an absolute. How to go about doing that is still open to interpretations both on a personal level and a societal level.
jar writes: What does any of that have to do with "Morality Decreasing With Time?" Well;
anglagard writes: I keep seeing this assertion in various threads but completely disagree with this casual and unsubstantiated observation. While morality is quite subjective and difficult to define, I would like to point out that by any measurable quality one may call moral that we are growing more, not less, moral over time I think it has something to do with putting a name to anglagard's 'measureable quality'. It is a theme that has been present since the first paragraph of the OP.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 108 by jar, posted 12-20-2006 3:16 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 110 by jar, posted 12-20-2006 3:43 PM | | anastasia has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
I did indeed put forth 'love thy neighbor' as an absolute. How to go about doing that is still open to interpretations both on a personal level and a societal level. But if it varies from society to society, how is it an absolute?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 109 by anastasia, posted 12-20-2006 3:38 PM | | anastasia has replied |
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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5974 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
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Message 111 of 305 (371197)
12-20-2006 4:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 110 by jar
12-20-2006 3:43 PM
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Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
jar writes: But if it varies from society to society, how is it an absolute? Simply because it exists in all of them. It is only the extent to which loving our neighbor is carried out that varies. All of the rights and freedoms which have been pointed out as moral are but examples of loving our neighbors. I am looking for an example of a moral that can not be condensed to mean just that, and in the mean time I feel fine with saying that having morals is the same thing as loving our neighbors. In fact, when you just substitute the words, the assertion that 'love is decreasing with time' sounds even more ridiculous, at least on the level of backing the statement up with proof.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 110 by jar, posted 12-20-2006 3:43 PM | | jar has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 112 by ringo, posted 12-20-2006 4:39 PM | | anastasia has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
anastasia writes: Simply because it exists in all of them. Ears exist in all societies, too. Does that make ears an absolute? (You seem to be talking about "universal" or even "common" rather than "absolute".)
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 111 by anastasia, posted 12-20-2006 4:18 PM | | anastasia has replied |
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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5974 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
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Message 113 of 305 (371202)
12-20-2006 4:48 PM
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Reply to: Message 112 by ringo
12-20-2006 4:39 PM
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Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
Ringo writes: Ears exist in all societies, too. Does that make ears an absolute? Do ears have morals? 
(You seem to be talking about "universal" or even "common" rather than "absolute".) Isn't finding one universal or common recognition of value the same as finding an absolute moral standard?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 112 by ringo, posted 12-20-2006 4:39 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 114 by ringo, posted 12-20-2006 5:03 PM | | anastasia has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
anastasia writes: Do ears have morals? Does something have to be about "morals" to be an absolute?
Isn't finding one universal or common recognition of value the same as finding an absolute moral standard? No. Murder is virtually universal in all societies. So which is the "absolute moral standard": yes-murder or no-murder?
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 113 by anastasia, posted 12-20-2006 4:48 PM | | anastasia has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 115 of 305 (371210)
12-20-2006 5:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 114 by ringo
12-20-2006 5:03 PM
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Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
Murder is virtually universal in all societies. So which is the "absolute moral standard": yes-murder or no-murder? Depends on the society. If we simply look at the Bible, murdering those who are not within the Hebrew clans is moral, murdering those within, immoral. It is the same with Love. The Hebrews "Loved" those who at a given moment were endorsed by their religion, but hated those who were under sanction.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 114 by ringo, posted 12-20-2006 5:03 PM | | ringo has not replied |
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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5974 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
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Message 116 of 305 (371220)
12-20-2006 5:50 PM
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Reply to: Message 114 by ringo
12-20-2006 5:03 PM
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Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
Ringo writes: Does something have to be about "morals" to be an absolute? No. It just wouldn't have anything to do with the topic.
Murder is virtually universal in all societies. So which is the "absolute moral standard": yes-murder or no-murder? Seriously now, this is a dead horse. If you ask 'what is moral' people will tell you no one knows because morality is subjective. As far as anyone has shown, what all morals are subject to and relative to is their proximity to love. We are free to murder, free to lie, free to steal, when the greater good is served. The greater good is in every case love of neighbor. I have not found anything to trump love of neighbor so I must at this time declare love to be the absolute by which all other actions are measured.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 114 by ringo, posted 12-20-2006 5:03 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 118 by ringo, posted 12-20-2006 5:56 PM | | anastasia has not replied |
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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5974 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
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Message 117 of 305 (371221)
12-20-2006 5:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 115 by jar
12-20-2006 5:13 PM
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Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
Sure, but that is the old testament. In the new, we are presented with a different standard 'love thy enemy', and the old one just doesn't cut the mustard anymore.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 115 by jar, posted 12-20-2006 5:13 PM | | jar has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
anastasia writes: Seriously now, this is a dead horse. My speciality. 
I have not found anything to trump love of neighbor.... The problem is that "neighbour" is defined relatively. As jar pointed out, it's moral to kill one neighbour and it's moral to mow another neighbour's lawn for him. How can "love thy neighbour" be absolute unless "neighbour" is also absolute?
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 116 by anastasia, posted 12-20-2006 5:50 PM | | anastasia has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
Sure, but that is the old testament. In the new, we are presented with a different standard 'love thy enemy', and the old one just doesn't cut the mustard anymore. LOL. So it changed. If it changed how could it be Absolute?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 117 by anastasia, posted 12-20-2006 5:55 PM | | anastasia has replied |
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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5974 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
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Message 120 of 305 (371236)
12-20-2006 6:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 119 by jar
12-20-2006 6:02 PM
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Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
jar writes: So it changed. If it changed how could it be Absolute? I don't even care. If you have evidence of what you say about the Hebrew clans, it takes the topic to another level. Let's sing another song boys, this one has grown old and bitter.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 119 by jar, posted 12-20-2006 6:02 PM | | jar has not replied |
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