Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Morality Decreasing With Time?
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 121 of 305 (371239)
12-20-2006 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by anastasia
12-20-2006 5:55 PM


Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
Sure, but that is the old testament. In the new, we are presented with a different standard 'love thy enemy', and the old one just doesn't cut the mustard anymore.
so pretty much its not an absolute, if you need to shift the meanings and alter how you present your argument to keep going, i don't think its working
there just isn't any absolutes, not even god has absolutes, look at the big 10 and look later in a majority of the books, he has no problem breaking his own rules and allowing others to do so.
of course i'd get the ol' god doesn't count since he's god, but it shows they arn't absolutes, anymore than man made laws are
just because people have common laws do not make them absolutes, we all have laws over murder but most of them differ, but we make laws and morals because we all share the same problems, with differing factors for happening
back then i doubt they would have a law about someone running someone over with a car on accident, but i bet they had a law about shooting someone in the back wwith a bow on accident, but we don't, well we do, but it really doesn't happen
my point is its an absurd argument to make that universal moral laws exist simply because every culture has the same problems and punishs them
every culture has killed a murderer for murder, but they don't treat them the same in how they do it or for the same logical reasons

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by anastasia, posted 12-20-2006 5:55 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by anastasia, posted 12-20-2006 7:32 PM ReverendDG has not replied

anastasia
Member (Idle past 5953 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 122 of 305 (371255)
12-20-2006 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by ReverendDG
12-20-2006 6:40 PM


Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
ReverendDG writes:
so pretty much its not an absolute, if you need to shift the meanings and alter how you present your argument to keep going, i don't think its working
I still think there is an absolute. Our awareness of it and interpretation of it is just getting better.
There may have been clans back in the day who killed their neighbors. It deosn't even matter. There are countries where the same behaviour exsts to this day. And what do we do? We call them 'uncivilized' and send our troops out to fix them. If all morality is relative, then what right do we have to tell another country how to set its rules? Aren't we still viewing our own moral successes as absolutes?
And then, what are our moral successes? They are the laws we have made which reflect love of neighbor. Rights, and freedoms.
Again, I say, our rights and freedoms can be snatched from us in the blink of an eye, if we dare to deny the same rights to our fellow humans.
We may drink to our heart's content, but not if we are driving.
We may speak out as much as we want, but not if it is in slander.
Have the morals changed just because individuals and nations fail to recognize them?
we all have laws over murder but most of them differ,
We ALL have laws over murder. We already covered this. Murder is acceptable when it serves the greater good.
my point is its an absurd argument to make that universal moral laws exist simply because every culture has the same problems and punishs them
every culture has killed a murderer for murder, but they don't treat them the same in how they do it or for the same logical reasons
Well, its an absurd point to make. You are putting the cart way before the horse. Every culture has killed a murderer. Why? How did they know it was wrong? What was the judgement based on?
I will entertain the idea of a change, if it can be shown to reveal a shift from the OT portrayal of God, to the NT God. At the least it will be more interesting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by ReverendDG, posted 12-20-2006 6:40 PM ReverendDG has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 123 of 305 (371258)
12-20-2006 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Rob
12-19-2006 10:00 AM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
That story is obviously fiction.
There are so many logical holes; it is really just a slightly better-written text version of a Jack Chick tract.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Rob, posted 12-19-2006 10:00 AM Rob has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 124 of 305 (371263)
12-20-2006 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by anastasia
12-19-2006 2:36 PM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
quote:
Well, I should rephrase it. God is the moral norm, and God can't change, so morals can't change.
1) Why can't God change?
2) God seems to change quite a lot in the bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by anastasia, posted 12-19-2006 2:36 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by anastasia, posted 12-20-2006 8:56 PM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 125 of 305 (371268)
12-20-2006 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Larni
12-19-2006 2:58 PM


Re: Botched home op.
quote:
Did the lack of an option of doing anything other than a hair brain home abortion not reflect the profound anxiety generated by their going against the social norms of the church? If the church kept away from the pair of them the home abortion would not have been entertained as an option.
The driver for behviour is always thoughts and beliefs. Get the wrong beliefs and you do stupid thisngs.
That's the message I got from that story:
Their religion made them worry more about how they appeared to everybody else, which is why they tried to do the abortion in secret.
They had a conflict where their strict dogma ran up against the realities of their lives.
Apparently, they were also so stupid that they didn't realize that they should use contraception if they wanted to avoid pregnancy.
I guess I also learned that I shouldn't use Christian doctors because if any of them are as stupid as these Christian medical students were, I don't want them anywhere near me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Larni, posted 12-19-2006 2:58 PM Larni has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 126 of 305 (371273)
12-20-2006 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Rob
12-19-2006 4:23 PM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
quote:
Anastasia must be another incarnation of Rob as well. We're all born of the same Spirit.
No, your writing style is exactly like Rob's, and anastasia's isn't.
Anastasia also actually paricipates in a back and forth, where you, rob, do not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Rob, posted 12-19-2006 4:23 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by DrJones*, posted 12-20-2006 9:01 PM nator has not replied
 Message 132 by Rob, posted 12-21-2006 12:21 AM nator has not replied
 Message 151 by Larni, posted 12-22-2006 5:34 AM nator has not replied

anastasia
Member (Idle past 5953 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 127 of 305 (371284)
12-20-2006 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by nator
12-20-2006 7:44 PM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
schrafinator writes:
God seems to change quite a lot in the bible.
Is that like 'the moon seems to grow smaller from earth'?.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by nator, posted 12-20-2006 7:44 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by nator, posted 12-21-2006 8:53 AM anastasia has not replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 128 of 305 (371285)
12-20-2006 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by nator
12-20-2006 7:56 PM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
No, your writing style is exactly like Rob's
Thats what I thought . Rob's key topic was absolutes and he went off on preachy tangents too.

Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by nator, posted 12-20-2006 7:56 PM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Taz, posted 12-20-2006 9:22 PM DrJones* has replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 129 of 305 (371288)
12-20-2006 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by DrJones*
12-20-2006 9:01 PM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
I saw a few of rob's posts before. Nothing too offensive. Why would he have to come back as a different person?

George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by DrJones*, posted 12-20-2006 9:01 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by DrJones*, posted 12-20-2006 11:03 PM Taz has not replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 130 of 305 (371307)
12-20-2006 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Taz
12-20-2006 9:22 PM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
I point you to Message 139

Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Taz, posted 12-20-2006 9:22 PM Taz has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 131 of 305 (371314)
12-20-2006 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Dan Carroll
12-20-2006 2:58 PM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
Touche'

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Dan Carroll, posted 12-20-2006 2:58 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 132 of 305 (371317)
12-21-2006 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by nator
12-20-2006 7:56 PM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
Anastasia also actually paricipates in a back and forth, where you, rob, do not.
She is in many ways my senior. Much more patient...
A back and forth conversation would be one in which the party (in this case the accusor) is actually interested in understanding the point of view of the other. My evidence is laughed out of town as inadmissable. You cannot reach the conscious, when it has been systematically exchanged for biochemical emotion in the target audience.
When the body is the soul, you become dead to soulishness.
When you get a Ringo (who really only does not hide it as well as say... you) then the entire enterprise is a mock trial (repeat refrain).
When the attitude at the start is, 'Look you fool! You don't get it! I have already made up my mind, and I don't care what you say... I intend to have my way... then what can be said, without a magical snowstorm of static becoming the inevitable buzzz?
I do not deny the power... but to what avail?
If a madman insists that his company follow him through many an incoherent merry go round, then is his company guilty of not playing along?
That's my stand, and I do wish I could help you see and hear.
It's a great game (if your mad). A real power play! One that is, by definition, not productive for either party.
For the record, it's... Robert Scott Lockett.
Don't try and take the credit Schraf. Dr Jones deserves all the glory! He'll bask in the glory with much humility I can see it now.
I offer because I'm tired anyhow. Though I don't know why you would want to let one go who is so visible a target of mob tyranny. A genuine gang rape. It's not as though I'm going to save anyone. If they hear, they'll hear.
Why didn't someone just come out and ask? Are you, or are you not...? Rob
I expect absolute justice, just not from those who do not believe in it.
Before I am completely crucified, I thought of another absolute other than justice and mercy (which you can take to the bank btw) and it is rebellion.
Some things just cannot be altered, because the powers that be will not allow it.
I've learned so much from you all. Do hope I've been entertaining enough to keep around, but if not... I've learned alot...
Funny how simple lessons are the hardest. Don't give pearls to swine!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by nator, posted 12-20-2006 7:56 PM nator has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 133 of 305 (371320)
12-21-2006 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by jar
12-19-2006 6:19 PM


Re: Absolutes?
You have still provided no evidence of an Absolute Truth or that there is any indication that Morality is decreasing.
I have repeatedly! I cannot show you something you refuse to see. It's like me oening my hand and saying, "look a penny". And you say, 'there's no penny in there'.
I mean, I have to hand it to you... I can't beat that! I can't force you to be honest.
When I show honesty, it is ascribed to weakness; to self esteem issues, or copping out!
OK jar... you beat me! So what did you win?
You know the only difference between me and you?
I actually care! And no matter what you do, I always will. Even when you don't deserve it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by jar, posted 12-19-2006 6:19 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by jar, posted 12-21-2006 12:44 AM Rob has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 134 of 305 (371321)
12-21-2006 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by Rob
12-21-2006 12:41 AM


Re: Absolutes?
When I show honesty, it is ascribed to weakness; to self esteem issues, or copping out!
Honesty? Right Rob. See Message 62, last line.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Rob, posted 12-21-2006 12:41 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Rob, posted 12-21-2006 1:02 AM jar has not replied
 Message 138 by Rob, posted 12-21-2006 1:11 AM jar has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 135 of 305 (371324)
12-21-2006 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by jar
12-21-2006 12:44 AM


Re: Absolutes?
Yes jar, that's honesty...
I'm not suprised you don't recognize it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by jar, posted 12-21-2006 12:44 AM jar has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024