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Author Topic:   Bible accepts evolution
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 16 of 80 (371423)
12-21-2006 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by 4Pillars
12-21-2006 3:17 PM


Wrong again
What we reject is the leap of logic and faith being employed by blind people like you who will try to apply the same mechanism to explain macro-evolution (the goo-to-you theory). Come on get real.
You are apparently unaware that many Christians accept macro-evolution and the whole Theory of Evolution.
See Clergy Letter which has been endorsed by over 10,000 US Christian Clergy.
Macro-evolution is strictly historical with no evidence to show except lots of speculations. It is classic equivocation by evolutionists to mean macroevolution when they speak of evolution, but turn to microevolution when asked for evidence.
Wrong yet again.
Macro-evolution is the sum of Micro-evolution over time. You only see it when looking at two distant points in a continuum. Only when you look at two or more examples widely separated does the FACT of Macro-evolution become visible.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 3:17 PM 4Pillars has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 4:20 PM jar has replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 80 (371434)
12-21-2006 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
12-21-2006 3:29 PM


Re: Illogical Assumption
Things reproduce according to their kind, just like the Bible says (Genesis 1:11,12,21,24,25). They always have and they always will”while ever this world exists.
"There are many breeds of pigeons, cattle, horses, dogs, etc., but they are all pigeons, cattle, horses, dogs, etc. Recombination of existing genes can produce enormous variety within a kind, but the variation is limited by the genes present. If there are no genes present for producing feathers, you can breed reptiles for a billion years and you will not get anything with feathers!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 12-21-2006 3:29 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by DrJones*, posted 12-21-2006 4:23 PM 4Pillars has replied
 Message 19 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-21-2006 4:43 PM 4Pillars has replied
 Message 25 by jar, posted 12-21-2006 5:26 PM 4Pillars has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2285
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 18 of 80 (371435)
12-21-2006 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by 4Pillars
12-21-2006 4:20 PM


Re: Illogical Assumption
Things reproduce according to their kind
Please provide a working definition of "kind".

Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 4:20 PM 4Pillars has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 4:46 PM DrJones* has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 80 (371442)
12-21-2006 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by 4Pillars
12-21-2006 4:20 PM


Re: Illogical Assumption
Recombination of existing genes can produce enormous variety within a kind, but the variation is limited by the genes present. If there are no genes present for producing feathers, you can breed reptiles for a billion years and you will not get anything with feathers!"
What about mutation? That can cause all kinds of wacky stuff.
You accept emormous variety within a kind. Feathers are just an enormous variety of reptile's scales.
You'll reject evolution no matter how much evidence you see, won't you? Just becuase humans evolved doesn't mean there's no god, get over it already. Don't let your religion prevent you from seeing truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 4:20 PM 4Pillars has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 4:52 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 80 (371443)
12-21-2006 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by DrJones*
12-21-2006 4:23 PM


Re: Illogical Assumption
Here's a simple definition of a "kind"
Kind
1. A group of individuals linked by traits held in common. 2. A particular variety; a sort: What kind of soap do you like best?
3. Fundamental, underlying character as a determinant of the class to which a thing belongs; nature or essence. 4. A doubtful or borderline member of a given category: fashioned a kind of shelter; a kind of bluish color. 5. Archaic Manner
Let see if you can go around it. :-)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by DrJones*, posted 12-21-2006 4:23 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by DrJones*, posted 12-21-2006 4:54 PM 4Pillars has replied
 Message 26 by jar, posted 12-21-2006 5:29 PM 4Pillars has not replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 80 (371445)
12-21-2006 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by New Cat's Eye
12-21-2006 4:43 PM


Re: Illogical Assumption
>>>What about mutation? That can cause all kinds of wacky stuff.
You accept emormous variety within a kind. Feathers are just an enormous variety of reptile's scales.<<<
*************************************
Question: How do I reply with auto quotes (like yours) on this forum?
*************************************
To get evolution 'from bacteria to Bach' requires incredible amounts of new information to be added. Typical bacteria have about 2,000 proteins; a human has about 100,000. At every upward step of evolution there needs to be new information added. Where does it come from? Not from mutations ” they degrade information.
Carl Sagan, ardent evolutionist, admitted: '... mutations occur at random and are almost uniformly harmful”it is rare that a precision machine is improved by a random change in the instructions for making it.' (Carl Sagan, The Dragons of Eden, Hodder and Stoughton, London, 1977, p. 28.) (Source)
Edited by 4Pillars, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-21-2006 4:43 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-21-2006 5:02 PM 4Pillars has replied
 Message 69 by Lithodid-Man, posted 12-23-2006 4:33 AM 4Pillars has not replied
 Message 70 by Lithodid-Man, posted 12-23-2006 4:45 AM 4Pillars has not replied
 Message 71 by Jon, posted 12-23-2006 7:24 AM 4Pillars has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2285
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 22 of 80 (371446)
12-21-2006 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by 4Pillars
12-21-2006 4:46 PM


Re: Illogical Assumption
So what "kind" does a hyena fall into? How about Homo spaiens what "kind" are we?
Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.

Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 4:46 PM 4Pillars has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 5:15 PM DrJones* has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 80 (371447)
12-21-2006 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by 4Pillars
12-21-2006 4:52 PM


Re: Illogical Assumption
Question: How do you reply with auto quotes (like yours) on this forum?
After you hit reply, look to the left of the box you type in and there will be a link for dBCodes On Help.
It links you to here peek at what I've typed in by clicking on the peek box in the bottom right of my message.

To get evolution 'from bacteria to Bach' requires incredible amounts of new information to be added.
Do you realise that you just moved the goalposts?
But I agree that it is a lot of info.
Typical bacteria have about 2,000 proteins; a human has about 100,000. At every upward step of evolution there needs to be new information added. Where does it come from? Not from mutations ” they degrade information.
That is what I would call an unsubstantiated assertion. They don't do much to further the discussion. Let me exemplify with this response:
I disagree. Mutations can promote information.
mutations occur at random and are almost uniformly harmful”it is rare that a precision machine is improved by a random change in the instructions for making it.
Yes, it is rare. But no matter how rare it is, in the brazillion amount of critters that have run around this planet for billions of years, the probability is very high that it will eventually happen, hell, its inevitable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 4:52 PM 4Pillars has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 5:34 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 80 (371453)
12-21-2006 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by DrJones*
12-21-2006 4:54 PM


Re: homo spaiens - modern mankind
Dr. Jones>>>> So what "kind" does a hyena fall into? How about Homo spaiens what "kind" are we?<<<<
We are a product of a descent with modification -- the union between the descendants of the prehistoric woman (Mt. Eve 150-190K years ago) and the Adam; descendants (human).
Edited by 4Pillars, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by DrJones*, posted 12-21-2006 4:54 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by DrJones*, posted 12-21-2006 5:33 PM 4Pillars has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 25 of 80 (371454)
12-21-2006 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by 4Pillars
12-21-2006 4:20 PM


Re: Illogical Assumption
Things reproduce according to their kind, just like the Bible says (Genesis 1:11,12,21,24,25). They always have and they always will”while ever this world exists.
"There are many breeds of pigeons, cattle, horses, dogs, etc., but they are all pigeons, cattle, horses, dogs, etc. Recombination of existing genes can produce enormous variety within a kind, but the variation is limited by the genes present. If there are no genes present for producing feathers, you can breed reptiles for a billion years and you will not get anything with feathers!"
More totally unsupported assertions that also include totally undefined terms. In addition it has absolutely nothing to do with anything in my message.
Acceptance of nonsense phrases like "within kinds" and the rest of your post is unfortunately both common and unchallenged in far too many of today's Christian Churches and schools. Thank GOD that is not the case here.
In Message 16, which you failed to address, I pointed out two things, that much of Christianity fully accepts the Theory of Evolution and also rejects Biblical Creationism and that you do not seem to understand what Macro-evolution means. The post I am responding to simply confirms that you do not understand what Macro-evolution is.
The question is, do you want to learn or are you committed to maintaining your ignorance?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 4:20 PM 4Pillars has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 26 of 80 (371456)
12-21-2006 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by 4Pillars
12-21-2006 4:46 PM


Re: Illogical Assumption
An example of Kind.
Primate Kind: Man, Orangutan, Bonobo, Chimpanzee, Gorilla.
Let's see you get around it.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 4:46 PM 4Pillars has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2285
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 27 of 80 (371459)
12-21-2006 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by 4Pillars
12-21-2006 5:15 PM


Re: homo spaiens - modern mankind
So when you say:
Kind
1. A group of individuals linked by traits held in common
You ignore the fact that we share 95+% of our DNA with Chimps.

Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 5:15 PM 4Pillars has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 5:47 PM DrJones* has replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 80 (371460)
12-21-2006 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by New Cat's Eye
12-21-2006 5:02 PM


Re: Illogical Assumption
CatholicScientidt wrote: >>I disagree. Mutations can promote information.<<
****************************************
New 'species' can and have formed, if by definition we mean something which cannot breed with other species of the same genus, but this is not evidence for evolution. The new species have no new genetic information! For example, a 'new species' has arisen in Drosophila, the ferment fly so popular in undergraduate genetics laboratories. The new 'species' cannot breed with the parent species but is fertile with its own type, so it is, by definition, a new 'species'. However, there is no new genetic information, just the physical rearrangement of the genes on one chromosome ” technically called a 'chromosome translocation'.
Again, facts talk, conjectures walk. Cite a clear example of a new function (sight from sightlessness, feathers from scales, etc.) that arose out of a new genetic information created.
It is regularly observed that CHANCE does not create new information, it merely garbles it, leading to less information no matter how much time you a lot. So 4.5 billions years?
Heck, I'll give you 100 billion years, and chance will still not produce anything with specified complexity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-21-2006 5:02 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-21-2006 5:45 PM 4Pillars has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 80 (371464)
12-21-2006 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by 4Pillars
12-21-2006 5:34 PM


I suspect you're trolling
Again, facts talk, conjectures walk.
Your posts are filled with conjecture and lack facks, so why am I to be held to a higher criteria than you?
You supply an unsubstantiated assertion and I reply with the same. Your reply to my reply is: where's the proof? Which was my point in the first place.
New 'species' can and have formed, if by definition we mean something which cannot breed with other species of the same genus, but this is not evidence for evolution.
Then you don't even know what evolution is.
Listen, man, are you here to learn? or are you here to troll?
If you actually want to learn something then you should stay and you will learn alot. If not, then have a nice life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 5:34 PM 4Pillars has not replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 80 (371465)
12-21-2006 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by DrJones*
12-21-2006 5:33 PM


Re: homo spaiens - modern mankind
Dr. Jones: >>>You ignore the fact that we share 95+% of our DNA with Chimps.<<<
Just because a Creature has bones, which look like another creature's bones, or have similar DNA does Not mean that both sets of bones or DNA evolved from the same ancestor -- but instead, is evidence that we all have a Common Creator. His name is Jesus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by DrJones*, posted 12-21-2006 5:33 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by DrJones*, posted 12-21-2006 6:00 PM 4Pillars has not replied
 Message 32 by Chiroptera, posted 12-21-2006 6:04 PM 4Pillars has replied

  
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