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Author Topic:   Morality Decreasing With Time?
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 136 of 305 (371325)
12-21-2006 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by jar
12-19-2006 4:10 PM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
Whoever Rob is, he must have tried to explain this to you before.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by jar, posted 12-19-2006 4:10 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by AdminNosy, posted 12-21-2006 1:10 AM Rob has not replied

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 137 of 305 (371326)
12-21-2006 1:10 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by Rob
12-21-2006 1:04 AM


now you're dishonest too
suspended for 3 days

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Rob, posted 12-21-2006 1:04 AM Rob has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 138 of 305 (371327)
12-21-2006 1:11 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by jar
12-21-2006 12:44 AM


Re: Absolutes?
It's strange you know?
I ask you to make an affirmation that says that absolute do not exist, and you do not answer. You instead ask for proof.
That is the proof jar.
The universe was created in a logical manner. Logic itself provides the answer.
There is no other conclusion other than that absolute truth exists.
Regardless of what reality turns out to be... perhaps it is that we are dead and that's it!
Perhaps it is that we are caught up into the pantheistic oneness of it all.
Whatever it is, it is absolute.
Once you see that (and i did not until after my own rebirth, which means it may be useless to tell you) then you will get it!
If it's all relative, then relativity is absolute and chaos is God.
And if chaos is God, then there is nothing wrong with anything!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by jar, posted 12-21-2006 12:44 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by jar, posted 12-21-2006 12:16 PM Rob has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 139 of 305 (371361)
12-21-2006 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by anastasia
12-20-2006 8:56 PM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
God seems to change quite a lot in the bible.
quote:
Is that like 'the moon seems to grow smaller from earth'?.
1) No.
2) Huh?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by anastasia, posted 12-20-2006 8:56 PM anastasia has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 140 of 305 (371394)
12-21-2006 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by jar
12-20-2006 8:52 AM


Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
What has been said is that so far no one has presented an example of Absolute Truth or Absolute Morality that stands up to examination.
If ever we were to reach a consensus, I think the Golden Rule would be the maxim of all maxim's.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 12-20-2006 8:52 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by jar, posted 12-21-2006 12:24 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 141 of 305 (371395)
12-21-2006 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by crashfrog
12-20-2006 9:01 AM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
Just because there's one absolute doesn't mean there are any others.
There is quite a few others, most notably, physical constants.
Because to assert the existence of absolutes, but fail to provide even a single example, is what seems odd to me. If there are absolutes... what are they?
The Golden Rule, which encompasses most things.
I didn't really feel "stung." I was able to defeat that line of reasoning in seconds, after all.
Heh... hubris of the defeated.
quote:
Damn, did I hit the nail on the head or what?
Uh, actually it looks like you completely avoided addressing my argument.
I was talking about the kinds of people who frequent coffeehouses to whine. What did I neglect to cover?

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by crashfrog, posted 12-20-2006 9:01 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by crashfrog, posted 12-21-2006 10:38 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 142 of 305 (371397)
12-21-2006 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Rob
12-21-2006 1:11 AM


On Absolutes
It's strange you know?
I ask you to make an affirmation that says that absolute do not exist, and you do not answer. You instead ask for proof.
That is the proof jar.
Once again:
Case in point. By hoisting this old canard, petards seemingly in short supply this season, the conartist is drawing your attention away from what has been said.
No one has said that there are no absolutes. There may well be absolutes and in fact some absolutes may even be placed in evidence.
What has been said is that so far no one has presented an example of Absolute Truth or Absolute Morality that stands up to examination.
From Message 79
rob writes:
There is no other conclusion other than that absolute truth exists.
Fine. So present an example of an Absolute Truth that we can examine.
If it's all relative, then relativity is absolute and chaos is God.
And if chaos is God, then there is nothing wrong with anything!
That's of course incorrect. There can also be relative morals and relative laws and even arbitrary and capricious morals and laws.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Rob, posted 12-21-2006 1:11 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 1:49 AM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 143 of 305 (371398)
12-21-2006 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Hyroglyphx
12-21-2006 11:59 AM


Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
If ever we were to reach a consensus, I think the Golden Rule would be the maxim of all maxim's.
I agree that it is a great Maxim, but it is not an Absolute. For example, it has two parts, and how you treat others depends on how you would like to be treated.
Remember, relative morals can still be powerful and at a very high level.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-21-2006 11:59 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-22-2006 12:46 AM jar has not replied
 Message 160 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-22-2006 12:10 PM jar has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 144 of 305 (371508)
12-21-2006 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Hyroglyphx
12-21-2006 12:07 PM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
There is quite a few others, most notably, physical constants.
We don't know that there are any, though. There are simply physical values that seem arbitrary in our models and aren't observed to change.
That may, or may not, mean they're constant. They could be derivative values, or not constant at all.
Heh... hubris of the defeated.
Are you seriously claiming to have "defeated" me with an argument that I rebutted and that you haven't yet defended?
What did I neglect to cover?
Any response whatsoever to my argument about relativism.
Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-21-2006 12:07 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-22-2006 12:37 PM crashfrog has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 145 of 305 (371532)
12-22-2006 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by jar
12-21-2006 12:24 PM


Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
If ever we were to reach a consensus, I think the Golden Rule would be the maxim of all maxim's.
I agree that it is a great Maxim, but it is not an Absolute. For example, it has two parts, and how you treat others depends on how you would like to be treated.
That's hardly an example, IMO.
But yeah on the no absolutes.
WRT the golden rule: If you, yourself, did not want to be treated like you treat others, would you then NOT treat others as you would have them treat you?
Remember, relative morals can still be powerful and at a very high level.
But never absolute

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by jar, posted 12-21-2006 12:24 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Taz, posted 12-22-2006 1:48 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 146 of 305 (371534)
12-22-2006 12:53 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Hyroglyphx
12-20-2006 3:41 AM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
But to deny the existence of absolutes seems odd to me.
How can anything be absolute? I mean, like, really absolute.
Don't get me wrong, I believe in an absolute morality, but not because its logically possible or because there are actual examples of it. The only thing I can can back it up with is good ol' Goddidit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-20-2006 3:41 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Brian, posted 12-22-2006 3:10 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 147 of 305 (371537)
12-22-2006 1:48 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by New Cat's Eye
12-22-2006 12:46 AM


Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
quote:
WRT the golden rule
What about masochists?

George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-22-2006 12:46 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-22-2006 8:35 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 156 by jar, posted 12-22-2006 9:42 AM Taz has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 148 of 305 (371541)
12-22-2006 3:10 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by New Cat's Eye
12-22-2006 12:53 AM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
I believe in an absolute morality, but not because its logically possible or because there are actual examples of it. The only thing I can can back it up with is good ol' Goddidit.
I certianly hope you aren't taking Yahweh as an example of absolute morality!
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-22-2006 12:53 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-22-2006 8:42 AM Brian has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 149 of 305 (371552)
12-22-2006 5:10 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Taz
12-20-2006 1:19 PM


Re: Botched home op.
Thats the great thing about dogma: it come first second and last. Humanity does not get a look in.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Taz, posted 12-20-2006 1:19 PM Taz has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 150 of 305 (371554)
12-22-2006 5:27 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by anastasia
12-20-2006 1:44 PM


Re: Morality and Yahweh
anastasia writes:
Depends on what evidence you speak of. The impact the Bible has had on societies and individuals says that many people, even very intelligent people, continue to find something more than fairy tale about it.
How ironic that the higher the level of education one has the the less religious one is (and less likely one is to commit a crime).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by anastasia, posted 12-20-2006 1:44 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by anastasia, posted 12-22-2006 1:51 PM Larni has replied

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