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Author Topic:   Bible accepts evolution
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 80 (371442)
12-21-2006 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by 4Pillars
12-21-2006 4:20 PM


Re: Illogical Assumption
Recombination of existing genes can produce enormous variety within a kind, but the variation is limited by the genes present. If there are no genes present for producing feathers, you can breed reptiles for a billion years and you will not get anything with feathers!"
What about mutation? That can cause all kinds of wacky stuff.
You accept emormous variety within a kind. Feathers are just an enormous variety of reptile's scales.
You'll reject evolution no matter how much evidence you see, won't you? Just becuase humans evolved doesn't mean there's no god, get over it already. Don't let your religion prevent you from seeing truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 4:20 PM 4Pillars has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 4:52 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 80 (371447)
12-21-2006 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by 4Pillars
12-21-2006 4:52 PM


Re: Illogical Assumption
Question: How do you reply with auto quotes (like yours) on this forum?
After you hit reply, look to the left of the box you type in and there will be a link for dBCodes On Help.
It links you to here peek at what I've typed in by clicking on the peek box in the bottom right of my message.

To get evolution 'from bacteria to Bach' requires incredible amounts of new information to be added.
Do you realise that you just moved the goalposts?
But I agree that it is a lot of info.
Typical bacteria have about 2,000 proteins; a human has about 100,000. At every upward step of evolution there needs to be new information added. Where does it come from? Not from mutations ” they degrade information.
That is what I would call an unsubstantiated assertion. They don't do much to further the discussion. Let me exemplify with this response:
I disagree. Mutations can promote information.
mutations occur at random and are almost uniformly harmful”it is rare that a precision machine is improved by a random change in the instructions for making it.
Yes, it is rare. But no matter how rare it is, in the brazillion amount of critters that have run around this planet for billions of years, the probability is very high that it will eventually happen, hell, its inevitable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 4:52 PM 4Pillars has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 5:34 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 80 (371464)
12-21-2006 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by 4Pillars
12-21-2006 5:34 PM


I suspect you're trolling
Again, facts talk, conjectures walk.
Your posts are filled with conjecture and lack facks, so why am I to be held to a higher criteria than you?
You supply an unsubstantiated assertion and I reply with the same. Your reply to my reply is: where's the proof? Which was my point in the first place.
New 'species' can and have formed, if by definition we mean something which cannot breed with other species of the same genus, but this is not evidence for evolution.
Then you don't even know what evolution is.
Listen, man, are you here to learn? or are you here to troll?
If you actually want to learn something then you should stay and you will learn alot. If not, then have a nice life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 5:34 PM 4Pillars has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 80 (371528)
12-22-2006 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by 4Pillars
12-21-2006 6:27 PM


Re: It's the over-all pattern that counts
Similarly, in your case (OT), if a malfunction in a printing press caused a book to be printed with every page doubled, it would not be more informative than the proper book.
But if it inserted one letter, or repeated a letter, or removed a letter, and the only way you could read it was one letter at a time, then it would have caused a whole shift in the rest of the 'information' in the book.
This would be, in fact, new information. This malfunction (random mutation) can actually add information, and cause benefital mutations that can cause enough change in a species that this changed species can no longer reproduce with the parent species and then evolution has occured.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by 4Pillars, posted 12-21-2006 6:27 PM 4Pillars has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by 4Pillars, posted 12-22-2006 9:16 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 80 (371585)
12-22-2006 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by 4Pillars
12-22-2006 9:16 AM


Re: It's the over-all pattern that counts
Read my lips very slowly...
"Different genes" is not the same as "new genes", you still don't get any new genetic information, just less...
So you assert....
"Different genes" can produce new genetic information.
"New genes" are not required for new genetic information.
And in case you missed it the first time I posted it...
Carl Sagan, ardent evolutionist, admitted: '... mutations occur at random and are almost uniformly harmful”it is rare that a precision machine is improved by a random change in the instructions for making it.' (Carl Sagan, The Dragons of Eden, Hodder and Stoughton, London, 1977, p. 28.)
Your Argument from Authority supporting your Argument from Incredulity doesn't need repeating. Also, Sagan isn't saying that it is impossible, just that it is rare, so your logical fallacy isn't even supporting your argument to begin with.
You are just refusing to 'believe in' evolution. You have beliefs that you feel evolution contradicts. If you incounter evidence that goes against you beliefs then you maintain your belief and ignore (or refuse) the evidence. It is intellectually dishonest. You should form your beliefs around the available evidence, not form the available evidence around your beliefs.
To illustrate: if “superman” were the duplicated “gene”, and mutations in the letters changed it to “sxyxvawtu ”, you have clearly lost information, although you have a new sequence.
That's a poor ilustration.
Consider this:
superman gets changed to supperman. A small increase in information (genetic mutation). Now, lets just read the letters three at a time, assuming genetic information is read like this, in these litle sequences.
Before the change we have: sup, upe, per, erm, rma, man. (some amount, X, of information).
After the change we have: sup, upp, ppe, per, erm, rma, man.
Make sense?
So in both cases we have sup, per, erm, rma, and man. No loss or gain, or change at all in the individual from those sequences.
We have lost one sequence and that is 'upe' but we have gained two sequences, 'upp' and 'ppe'.
The majority of the info has remained the same so this, presumably will not have detrimental effects on the individual. Some info has been lost, which could just kill it, who knows. And some info has been gained, which too could just kill it. But it is not impossible that this new information provides the individual with a benefit.
You assert that it is, impossible.
Do you understand the words that are comming out of my mouth?
BTW, what does it got to do with the topic, heh?
Once you accept evolution we can discuss if the Bible does too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by 4Pillars, posted 12-22-2006 9:16 AM 4Pillars has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by 4Pillars, posted 12-22-2006 11:05 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 80 (371606)
12-22-2006 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by 4Pillars
12-22-2006 11:05 AM


Re: It's the over-all pattern that counts
quote:
So you assert....
"Different genes" can produce new genetic information.
"New genes" are not required for new genetic information.
Nice Strawman argument, however, that is not my assertion but your own made up premise & lying story.
Sorry for causeing confusion. I didn't meant that you asserted what followed that line. I meant that you asserted what preceded it. What followed it was my reply to your assertion.
Please re-reply to the post with this clarification.
I put a lot of time in explaining it to you, the least you could do is actually reply to it.
Again, sorry for the confusion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by 4Pillars, posted 12-22-2006 11:05 AM 4Pillars has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by 4Pillars, posted 12-22-2006 12:36 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
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