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Author Topic:   Bible accepts evolution
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 80 (371692)
12-22-2006 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by ringo
12-22-2006 4:58 PM


RE: Scripture and True Science
quote:
Of course, the Bible does not recognize science at all - ................
  —Ringo
WRONG assumption my friend.
Just so you know, there's not one truth for Christians and another one for Science. When you find God' truth, they both agree exactly to the Scripture.
That's why I seek the agreement of every other discovered Truth, to measure against God's Holy Word. There is Only 1 Truth, and every other discovered Truth MUST agree with God's Truth or we have Not found the 1 Truth.
The fault is Not with God's Truth, but with man's ability to understand it, for His thoughts are far above man's thoughts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by ringo, posted 12-22-2006 4:58 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by ringo, posted 12-22-2006 5:43 PM 4Pillars has replied
 Message 54 by platypus, posted 12-22-2006 5:57 PM 4Pillars has replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 80 (371703)
12-22-2006 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by ringo
12-22-2006 5:43 PM


RE: Scripture and True Science
Ringo wrote:
quote:
Of course, the Bible does not recognize science at all . . ...
4Pillars Responded:
quote:
WRONG assumption my friend.
Just so you know, there's not one truth for Christians and another one for Science. When you find God' truth, they both agree exactly to the Scripture.
That's why I seek the agreement of every other discovered Truth, to measure against God's Holy Word. There is Only 1 Truth, and every other discovered Truth MUST agree with God's Truth or we have Not found the 1 Truth.
The fault is Not with God's Truth, but with man's ability to understand it, for His thoughts are far above man's thoughts.
Ringo’ Rebuttal:
quote:
You're still misunderstanding the topic. "Truth" has nothing to do with it.
The question is: Did the authors of the Bible understand/acknowledge/mention evolution?
It's like asking: Did the authors of the Bible know about France? It's not about whether France is "true" or not.
Since the topic is not about "truth", it makes no difference whether there is one truth or eleven. We are not trying to measure anything against anything else for its "truth" value. We're trying to understand what - if anything - the Bible authors had to say about evolution.
But clearly, the above response by your truly was intended to refute your ignoramous statement about “the Bible does not recognize science at all . .. “ and has nothing to do with your latest strawman’ argument. Nice twist. ha ha ha
As I have told you before, don’t speak of anything in the Scripture that you have no knowledge or ignorant about - it will only come back and embarrass you, again and again..... :-)
Edited by 4Pillars, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by ringo, posted 12-22-2006 5:43 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by ringo, posted 12-22-2006 6:27 PM 4Pillars has not replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 80 (371716)
12-22-2006 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by platypus
12-22-2006 5:57 PM


RE: Scripture and True Science
quote:
Man once understood the Bible to mean that the earth was at the center of the universe. Whether the Bible actually says such a thing or not is beside the point, men had wrongly understood the Bible to mean such a thing. Scientific findings produced an opposite conclusion, and ended up being correct. Thus man's interpretation of the Bible changed.
The same thing seems to be happening for evolution. Some time not too long ago, creationists believed that all of evolution was wrong, including speciation and natural selection. They believed that this assertion was supported by the Bible. Now creationists believe that speciation and natural selection do occur, probably in light of convincing scientific evidence and common sense. This thread points to some Biblical passages that can be interpreted to support such an assertion.
Creationists still do not accept "macroevolution," as if it is some unique concept. Dr. Roughgarden voices the opinion in her book that nothing in the Bible actually contradicts the scientific meaning of evolution, and that a few passages even support elements of evolution. Or in other words, there are ways in which the Bible can be UNDERSTOOD which are not in conflict with evolution. In other words, science does not argue against the Bible, its simply calls for a new interpretation of the Bible, as have other scientific theories in the past.
First of all, I don't think Old Creationist have problem with true science. In fact, many of us believe that the Bible or Genesis can be reconcilled with any discovery or proven science.
Therefore, Creationist has no problems accepting the adaptations and micro-evolution which we consider to be Biblical and proven science - observable and repeatable.
On the other hand, it's this BLIND LEAP in logic that says MACRO is just an extrapolation of MICRO that we don't accept because 1) there is no evidence for it and 2) there are irrefutable evidence against such a notion particularly in modern genetics -- thus it is not Biblical.
But maybe you've never heard of the General Theory of Evolution (a.k.a. macro-evolution)...
"There is a theory which states that many living animals can be observed over the course of time to undergo changes so that new species are formed. This can be called the "Special Theory of Evolution " [note: micro-evolution] and can be demonstrated in certain cases by experiments.
On the other hand there is the theory that all the living forms in the world have arisen from a single source which itself came from an inorganic form. This theory can be called the "General Theory of Evolution" [note: macro-evolution] and the evidence that supports it is not sufficiently strong to allow us to consider it as anything more than a working hypothesis. It is not clear whether the changes that bring about speciation are of the same nature as those that brought about the development of new phyla. The answer will be found by future experimental work and not by dogmatic assertions that the General Theory of Evolution must be correct because there is nothing else that will satisfactorily take its place." (Kerkut G.A., "Implications of Evolution," in Kerkut G.A., ed. "International Series of Monographs on Pure and Applied Biology, Division: Zoology," Volume 4, Pergamon Press: New York NY, 1960, p.157).
Edited by 4Pillars, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by platypus, posted 12-22-2006 5:57 PM platypus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by platypus, posted 12-22-2006 7:38 PM 4Pillars has replied
 Message 77 by Lithodid-Man, posted 12-24-2006 7:56 AM 4Pillars has not replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 80 (371728)
12-22-2006 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by platypus
12-22-2006 7:38 PM


RE: Scripture and True Science
Platypus wrote:
quote:
Ringo, I was refering to your latest parley with pillars, about whether the Bible recognizes any sort of science. But hey, you seem to be more of a Bible-expert than myself, go ahead and talk about any Bible passages which may point to an evolutionary/scientific standpoint. Or whether those passages even exist. I'm honestly curious.
Why don't you re-read the Bible yourself especially Genesis 1 & 2?
Perhaps, it might enlighten you, if you pray for wisdom and understanding.
Or perhaps, you're just asking so that you can use it and promote your Evol Religion, would that be a fair assessment?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by platypus, posted 12-22-2006 7:38 PM platypus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by jar, posted 12-22-2006 8:48 PM 4Pillars has not replied
 Message 76 by ReverendDG, posted 12-24-2006 2:48 AM 4Pillars has not replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 80 (371740)
12-22-2006 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by fallacycop
12-22-2006 8:38 PM


Re: Macro-Evolution is a Lie
quote:
Since you haven`t given us a workable definition (or anybodyelse in these fora, that I`m aware of, for that matter) of macro-evolution, micro-evolution, or what`s the difference between them, I`m forced to chalenge your call of equivocation as invalid.
As far as I can see, the macro/micro-evolution is just a meaningless catchy phrase invented (or missrepresented) by creationists in order to distract people`s attention away from the fact that they do not have a single real argumment against the theory of evolution per si except for a feeling of uneasines which by itself amounts to nothing more then personal prejudice against that theory and, by extention, to science in general.
Read post # 59 , then come back to me when you have a better understanding of it.
Next time, clarify first, before opening your mouth making unsupported assertion.
Edited by 4Pillars, : No reason given.
Edited by 4Pillars, : No reason given.
Edited by 4Pillars, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by fallacycop, posted 12-22-2006 8:38 PM fallacycop has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by alacrity fitzhugh, posted 12-22-2006 9:24 PM 4Pillars has not replied
 Message 67 by Straggler, posted 12-22-2006 9:28 PM 4Pillars has not replied
 Message 68 by fallacycop, posted 12-22-2006 9:43 PM 4Pillars has not replied

  
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