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Author Topic:   Morality Decreasing With Time?
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 67 of 305 (370958)
12-19-2006 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by jar
12-19-2006 4:10 PM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
The question was never whether or not Absolutes exit, but rather whether one specific thing, Absolute Truth, exists.
Of course!
What I was trying to remind you of, is that if you disagree with the statement I just made, you will be forced to make an illogical statement.
You are making that out to be a play on words, but it is far more than that. It means that absolute truth is a logical necessity.
It is the only way to answwer your question. Do you deny logic as admissable in court by labling it as word games?
This from the same man who defends the veracity of science because of it's logical and mathematical undeniability?
Whoever Rob is, he must have tried to explain this to you before.
Anastasia must be another incarnation of Rob as well. We're all born of the same Spirit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by jar, posted 12-19-2006 4:10 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by jar, posted 12-19-2006 4:34 PM Rob has not replied
 Message 126 by nator, posted 12-20-2006 7:56 PM Rob has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 68 of 305 (370959)
12-19-2006 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by kuresu
12-19-2006 4:12 PM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
So you are saying that I am wrong? Because if you are saying that you 'think' I am wrong, then that's a different thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by kuresu, posted 12-19-2006 4:12 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by kuresu, posted 12-19-2006 4:41 PM Rob has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 72 of 305 (370980)
12-19-2006 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by jar
12-19-2006 2:59 PM


Re: Absolutes?
I can only ask "What Absolute Truth?"
Justice, Mercy, and love.
Pain is relative. All of the above are absolute.
That is why we expect them without excuse from others. Or to add context, that is why we are bitter... because we demand it and have lost all hope in receiving.
There is only one place that I see them converge, and that is on the cross of Christ. (for the record, that last line was quotemined).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by jar, posted 12-19-2006 2:59 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by jar, posted 12-19-2006 6:19 PM Rob has replied
 Message 75 by Straggler, posted 12-19-2006 7:11 PM Rob has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 131 of 305 (371314)
12-20-2006 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Dan Carroll
12-20-2006 2:58 PM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
Touche'

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Dan Carroll, posted 12-20-2006 2:58 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 132 of 305 (371317)
12-21-2006 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by nator
12-20-2006 7:56 PM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
Anastasia also actually paricipates in a back and forth, where you, rob, do not.
She is in many ways my senior. Much more patient...
A back and forth conversation would be one in which the party (in this case the accusor) is actually interested in understanding the point of view of the other. My evidence is laughed out of town as inadmissable. You cannot reach the conscious, when it has been systematically exchanged for biochemical emotion in the target audience.
When the body is the soul, you become dead to soulishness.
When you get a Ringo (who really only does not hide it as well as say... you) then the entire enterprise is a mock trial (repeat refrain).
When the attitude at the start is, 'Look you fool! You don't get it! I have already made up my mind, and I don't care what you say... I intend to have my way... then what can be said, without a magical snowstorm of static becoming the inevitable buzzz?
I do not deny the power... but to what avail?
If a madman insists that his company follow him through many an incoherent merry go round, then is his company guilty of not playing along?
That's my stand, and I do wish I could help you see and hear.
It's a great game (if your mad). A real power play! One that is, by definition, not productive for either party.
For the record, it's... Robert Scott Lockett.
Don't try and take the credit Schraf. Dr Jones deserves all the glory! He'll bask in the glory with much humility I can see it now.
I offer because I'm tired anyhow. Though I don't know why you would want to let one go who is so visible a target of mob tyranny. A genuine gang rape. It's not as though I'm going to save anyone. If they hear, they'll hear.
Why didn't someone just come out and ask? Are you, or are you not...? Rob
I expect absolute justice, just not from those who do not believe in it.
Before I am completely crucified, I thought of another absolute other than justice and mercy (which you can take to the bank btw) and it is rebellion.
Some things just cannot be altered, because the powers that be will not allow it.
I've learned so much from you all. Do hope I've been entertaining enough to keep around, but if not... I've learned alot...
Funny how simple lessons are the hardest. Don't give pearls to swine!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by nator, posted 12-20-2006 7:56 PM nator has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 133 of 305 (371320)
12-21-2006 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by jar
12-19-2006 6:19 PM


Re: Absolutes?
You have still provided no evidence of an Absolute Truth or that there is any indication that Morality is decreasing.
I have repeatedly! I cannot show you something you refuse to see. It's like me oening my hand and saying, "look a penny". And you say, 'there's no penny in there'.
I mean, I have to hand it to you... I can't beat that! I can't force you to be honest.
When I show honesty, it is ascribed to weakness; to self esteem issues, or copping out!
OK jar... you beat me! So what did you win?
You know the only difference between me and you?
I actually care! And no matter what you do, I always will. Even when you don't deserve it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by jar, posted 12-19-2006 6:19 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by jar, posted 12-21-2006 12:44 AM Rob has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 135 of 305 (371324)
12-21-2006 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by jar
12-21-2006 12:44 AM


Re: Absolutes?
Yes jar, that's honesty...
I'm not suprised you don't recognize it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by jar, posted 12-21-2006 12:44 AM jar has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 136 of 305 (371325)
12-21-2006 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by jar
12-19-2006 4:10 PM


Re: The semi-hidden moral reality...
Whoever Rob is, he must have tried to explain this to you before.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by jar, posted 12-19-2006 4:10 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by AdminNosy, posted 12-21-2006 1:10 AM Rob has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 138 of 305 (371327)
12-21-2006 1:11 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by jar
12-21-2006 12:44 AM


Re: Absolutes?
It's strange you know?
I ask you to make an affirmation that says that absolute do not exist, and you do not answer. You instead ask for proof.
That is the proof jar.
The universe was created in a logical manner. Logic itself provides the answer.
There is no other conclusion other than that absolute truth exists.
Regardless of what reality turns out to be... perhaps it is that we are dead and that's it!
Perhaps it is that we are caught up into the pantheistic oneness of it all.
Whatever it is, it is absolute.
Once you see that (and i did not until after my own rebirth, which means it may be useless to tell you) then you will get it!
If it's all relative, then relativity is absolute and chaos is God.
And if chaos is God, then there is nothing wrong with anything!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by jar, posted 12-21-2006 12:44 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by jar, posted 12-21-2006 12:16 PM Rob has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 181 of 305 (371920)
12-24-2006 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by jar
12-21-2006 12:16 PM


Re: On Absolutes
Fine. So present an example of an Absolute Truth that we can examine.
Isn't it interesting that Pilot asked the same question to Jesus about two thousand years ago?
John 18:37 "You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me." 38 "What is truth?" Pilate asked. With this he went out again to the Jews and said, "I find no basis for a charge against him.
No one can tell you jar... but even so, I will.
An absolute is that which is unchanging. By definition, God is the only absolute.
It's reality. It's the way things are meant to be. It is purpose, meaning, and origin. All that was revealed in the life of Christ.
Not the kind of answer that will satisfy your taunt, but the answer nonetheless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by jar, posted 12-21-2006 12:16 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by sidelined, posted 12-24-2006 2:09 AM Rob has replied
 Message 183 by ReverendDG, posted 12-24-2006 2:57 AM Rob has replied
 Message 185 by joshua221, posted 12-24-2006 3:17 AM Rob has replied
 Message 193 by Archer Opteryx, posted 12-24-2006 10:41 AM Rob has replied
 Message 199 by jar, posted 12-24-2006 11:21 AM Rob has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 190 of 305 (371974)
12-24-2006 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by joshua221
12-24-2006 3:17 AM


Re: On Absolutes
We ate the fruit so now we can spend our lives with this imperfection and endless search, isn't it meaningless, we already know that we are limited in our abilities to reason and understand.
We are limited in our ability to understand because only god can fullly understand. Only He knows the information you need (and you don't need it all). Knowledge is power, and power must be balanced with justice and mercy (morality) or hell breaks loose.
He made it clear that He will open our eyes if we give our lives back to Him. He did this by coming into time. He gave the emperical evidence you demand and you still choose not to believe.
Your like a blind man who was approached by many doctors offering to take you to a specialist who can heal you. And time and again you said, "How do I know you're a doctor when I can't see your degree?"
You'll just have to trust someone...
ps to mods... for some reason, my replies are not being mailed to me. I just happened to find this reply because I was looking in the thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by joshua221, posted 12-24-2006 3:17 AM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by joshua221, posted 12-24-2006 10:35 AM Rob has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 191 of 305 (371975)
12-24-2006 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by ReverendDG
12-24-2006 2:57 AM


Re: On Absolutes
this is no answer, you can't speak for god anymore than the bible can, there no evidence god doesn't change in the bible to begin with
There is tons of evidence, though admitedly I don't think Spirit can be measured in tons. That would be a hard conversion to muster!
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by ReverendDG, posted 12-24-2006 2:57 AM ReverendDG has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 194 of 305 (371979)
12-24-2006 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by sidelined
12-24-2006 2:09 AM


Re: On Absolutes
You assert that God is unchanging but you can in no way demonstrate that a God exists much less that he is absolute
Your statement is not absolute Sidelined...
I can demonstrate that He exists by laying down my life for Him.
You just think it's foolish in terms of human understanding. Well I agree! But I also think it is foolish to make absolute statements while denying that absolute exist.
Absolutes do exist! His name is the first and the last. The alpha and omega. Emanuel (God with us). Jesus!
I only profess it because I've met Him. He came to me when I cryed out to Him. That is how I know... not because I foolishly believe something I've never seen.
That's why Frued had to dismiss it as delusion. Because you cannot argue with someone elses experience.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by sidelined, posted 12-24-2006 2:09 AM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by sidelined, posted 12-24-2006 11:10 AM Rob has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 195 of 305 (371982)
12-24-2006 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by Archer Opteryx
12-24-2006 10:41 AM


Re: On Absolutes
And because the one true god is Marduk, Marduk is the only absolute.
Well it's logical
I think that we need more than just logic to come to proper conclusions.
Logical consistency is essential, but as you show so well, it is not the only test for truth.
What about 'emperical adequacy'? that is also needed! But it is not alone the only truth test. Most combine it with logic and TADA!... a naturalist is born.
But when you conbine logical consistency with emperical adequacy, and then add 'experential relevance' (or the existential), then you've mixed morality into the whole mixture.
There are other truth tests...
1.'Undeniability': If as a Buddhist, I deny that I exist; then in denying it, I actually affirm it at the same time.
2. 'Unaffirmability': If I say I cannot speak a word of English, I cannot affirm it at the same time.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by fallacycop, posted 12-24-2006 12:26 PM Rob has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 196 of 305 (371983)
12-24-2006 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by joshua221
12-24-2006 10:35 AM


Re: On Absolutes
No, I'm a Christian.
I don't know what about my post made it look like I wasn't.
Well those things happen...
I mistook your post as sarcastic. Perhaps I need to let my gaurd down a notch.
It's so dangerous around here... a guy could acccidentally cut the head off a brother if he isn't careful. Always on edge!
I'm still a bit clumsy with my sword. Forgive me, and merry Christmas prophex.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by joshua221, posted 12-24-2006 10:35 AM joshua221 has not replied

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