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Author Topic:   The Results are in...There is a God! - What now?
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5032 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 61 of 159 (304627)
04-16-2006 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by mike the wiz
04-12-2006 5:43 PM


who's IN the world?
It is very odd because only on a day like today, and somewhat on 9-11 was it possible to see Ithaca itself as really being IN the world. Seems like other days they are simply out. But today they are nowhere to be found (in general). This seems like good evidence that is in. At least it is as good as that God is out. What now? dont take a trip to the mall.ps- god is out anywhichway!!
This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 04-16-2006 02:37 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by mike the wiz, posted 04-12-2006 5:43 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by mike the wiz, posted 04-16-2006 2:49 PM Brad McFall has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 62 of 159 (304629)
04-16-2006 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Brad McFall
04-16-2006 2:35 PM


Re: who's IN the world?
Is this a yo-yo faith we see in Brad.
If it is you're not the only one. I admitt that the very world can seem Godless but Christ says it is doesn't he.
I think people just forget how good Christ is at giving correct answers so they find themselves on a path of disbelief, or neither hot nor cold. I only yo-yo once and that has been totally exaggerated as some major conversion to naturalism.
The Christ wisdom is correct hypothetically, the theology is logically sound. But people want evidence, so answers aren't enough even if we have good answers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Brad McFall, posted 04-16-2006 2:35 PM Brad McFall has replied

Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 63 of 159 (304694)
04-17-2006 6:48 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Chiroptera
04-12-2006 9:42 AM


and this god actually demands my love and trust, then I would be in trouble -- love and trust are things that are earned,
So the very person that gave you the ability to love and trust, you wouldn't. Interesting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Chiroptera, posted 04-12-2006 9:42 AM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 67 by DominionSeraph, posted 04-18-2006 12:18 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 64 of 159 (304696)
04-17-2006 6:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by U can call me Cookie
04-12-2006 9:24 AM


I've made the decision to live my life regardless of whether or not God exists. Simply due to...well, look at the state of the world, not much happiness, cheer and goodwill to go around; at least not what you would expect if a benevolent God was in charge.
The bible doesn't promise a smooth ride here on earth, in fact it says the opposite. So there should be no surprises for you.
You will, however, feel loved.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by U can call me Cookie, posted 04-12-2006 9:24 AM U can call me Cookie has not replied

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5032 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 65 of 159 (304700)
04-17-2006 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by mike the wiz
04-16-2006 2:49 PM


Re:yo-yo
If you can see THROUGH my ps then you have better eyes than I.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by mike the wiz, posted 04-16-2006 2:49 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 66 of 159 (304749)
04-17-2006 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by riVeRraT
04-17-2006 6:48 AM


quote:
Interesting.
Thanks. If my comments, opinions, and observations weren't interesting to anyone else, there would be no point of my posting, eh?

"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

This message is a reply to:
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DominionSeraph
Member (Idle past 4754 days)
Posts: 365
From: on High
Joined: 01-26-2005


Message 67 of 159 (304865)
04-18-2006 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by riVeRraT
04-17-2006 6:48 AM


riVeRraT writes:
So the very person that gave you the ability to love and trust, you wouldn't.
But God also would've given the ability to distrust, and a universe that doesn't reward gullibility.
Looks to me like a stupidity filter.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by riVeRraT, posted 04-17-2006 6:48 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by riVeRraT, posted 04-18-2006 4:50 PM DominionSeraph has not replied
 Message 69 by Phat, posted 04-18-2006 5:03 PM DominionSeraph has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 68 of 159 (305034)
04-18-2006 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by DominionSeraph
04-18-2006 12:18 AM


But God also would've given the ability to distrust, and a universe that doesn't reward gullibility.
Looks to me like a stupidity filter.
I am not sure what you mean by that.

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 69 of 159 (305036)
04-18-2006 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by DominionSeraph
04-18-2006 12:18 AM


>>>>>>>>>>Phats brief 2 cents...<<<<<<<<
Dominion Seraph writes:
But God also would've given the ability to distrust, and a universe that doesn't reward gullibility.
Again, a philosophical issue: Did God give us the ability to distrust, or did we choose to have this right?
I really have to read this whole thread before I can make a good reply, however! (Gotta go to work, now!)
This message has been edited by Phat, 04-18-2006 03:03 PM

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 70 of 159 (305550)
04-20-2006 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by mike the wiz
04-16-2006 2:29 PM


But those who are of the truth Christ spoke about, are not these people.
I take a broader view: to me everyone has the right to their own personal pursuit of faith at whatever level they choose.
Those who try to force others towards one {religion\belief\dogma\downward spiral} violate this right.
This is where the wars come from.

Join the effort to unravel {AIDS\HIV} with Team EvC! (click)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
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Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 71 of 159 (371967)
12-24-2006 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by U can call me Cookie
04-12-2006 9:24 AM


Worship God?
I've made the decision to live my life regardless of whether or not God exists. Simply due to...well, look at the state of the world, not much happiness, cheer and goodwill to go around; at least not what you would expect if a benevolent God was in charge.
If God is in control, is that the sort of God you would want to worship? Should God actually be worshipped at all?
Hello cookie. I wanted to make a couple points that may or may not be useful to you. A different slant on the issue.
If God exists, then it is not your life but His. That is a concept that is offensive to control freaks like human beings. I think we go wrong because we have been given freewill and misinterpret that as being able to do whateveer we want. So a man figures he can start a kingdom, and rule other men, and the next thng you know, we have a wretched existence.
You see, a benevolent God is not in control Cookie (not in the sense you indicated)... instead, we are!
Now, God is in control in the larger scope. He allows us to have our own way for a time. Only for the purpose of letting us see for ourselves how foolish we are.
You asked:
if God should be worshipped at all?
Only if you think the world is corrupt. God does not command us to worship Him because He is a control freak. That's what we project onto Him. He commands us to worship Him, because we need to worship Him if we are to understand what life is really about.
You've made the same mistake we all have at one time or another Cookie... You've been given a responsibility, and when you fail, you blame God for giving you the freedom to choose.
Even Adam blamed God... for putting the woman here with him.
Notice you blame the state of things on others by implication. And now you use that as an excuse to live 'however the hell you feel like'. What about you?
Ah scapegoats! It's always easier to blame someone else and nail them to a cross.
But if your son was going to be run over by a truck (even though it was because of his own ignorance), would you push him out of the way at the expense of your own physical life?
God did!
All of this, because we deny that life is more than physical and emperical. Jesus not only preached that life's essence is Spirit and not material, he proved Himself. He lived it.
He didn't condemn that which is already condemned... Instead, He led by example.
Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by U can call me Cookie, posted 04-12-2006 9:24 AM U can call me Cookie has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Archer Opteryx, posted 12-24-2006 10:20 AM Rob has not replied
 Message 74 by ringo, posted 12-24-2006 12:13 PM Rob has replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 72 of 159 (371971)
12-24-2006 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Rob
12-24-2006 10:01 AM


Re: Worship Marduk?
U Cookie postulated that we learn for a fact of the existence of a God. He did not stipulate what kind of God. It is interesting--a bit too convenient--that so many have assumed that any deity we discovered would correspond to known Judeo-Christian models.
But there are any number of Gods we might find. What if the God he found was Marduk? Guan Gung? Ra? The Triple Morrigan? Something previously unknown?
Would scottness get down on his knees and worship Marduk, his creator? Or would he be a 'control freak' who tries to fit the Source of Life into a box that conforms to his past patterns of belief--at least, until Marduk (praised be he) finally leads him to realize how futile all this is?
Food for thought. Under the circumstances, call it a candy cane.
Merry Christmas to all.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : evolutionary processes.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 159 (371991)
12-24-2006 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by U can call me Cookie
04-12-2006 9:24 AM


There are many things that have been left unadressed here. You say that this god would be in control, and that it/he/she would be benevolent. However, would you have proof that this god MUST be in control? An entity with supreme power still reserves the right to refuse involvement in the world. And why would that detract from said entity's benevolence?
Would there be any consequences from not worshipping this god? Perhaps it is not the Christian god; perhaps (being so careless to the suffering of the world) she/he/it also doesn't give a damn whether or not we worship him/it/she. And, maybe he/she/it does care, but perhaps has no methods in place for punishing those who refuse worshipping, and no rewards set in place for those who do worship.
Really, one would need far more information before making any decision about what to do with the discovery of a supreme deity.
Do you have it?
J0N

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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 74 of 159 (371999)
12-24-2006 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Rob
12-24-2006 10:01 AM


Re: Worship God?
scottness writes:
If God exists, then it is not your life but His.
If God gives us the gift of life, it is no longer His.
You've been given a responsibility, and when you fail, you blame God for giving you the freedom to choose.
If God gives us free will, He forgoes the right to punish us for using it.
In this season of giving, we should try to understand what a gift is.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 10:01 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Phat, posted 12-24-2006 12:56 PM ringo has replied
 Message 78 by Jon, posted 12-24-2006 5:23 PM ringo has replied
 Message 82 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 10:22 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 75 of 159 (372005)
12-24-2006 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by ringo
12-24-2006 12:13 PM


Re: Worship God?
Ringo writes:
If God gives us free will, He forgoes the right to punish us for using it.
Not necessarily. God may have the ability to control all aspects of reality, but that does not mean He is obligated to do so.
Lemme try a parable. If I had a fishie and I gave my fish free will to be able to jump out of the confines of the living environment that I provided for him, would I scold him if he lay gasping for air on the table next to the tank?
Indeed, I would expect that the fish would eventually do such an acrobatically defiant act! If you say that God should waive the right to punish us if we exercise free will outside the parameters of His environment, I would agree---with the stipulation that we also forgo the right to blame God if our best laid independent thoughts lead us into quicksand.
Some folks say that we are under no obligation to acknowledge God even if He does exist. These same folks would then have no room to blame God for the evils and misfortunes that plague society.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by ringo, posted 12-24-2006 12:13 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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