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Author Topic:   Morality Decreasing With Time?
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 226 of 305 (372051)
12-24-2006 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by Hyroglyphx
12-24-2006 4:40 PM


Re: yet another nonsense off topic non-response.
They are the same person, although Scottness originally denied he was Rob, he was suspended for it.
The reason I do not think he is a Christian is because he clearly isn't convinced that Jesus is his saviour. He lies too easily for someone who is supposed to be born again.
This doesn't mean he isnt a Xian, just that I don't consider him to be one.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-24-2006 4:40 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 7:09 PM Brian has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 227 of 305 (372063)
12-24-2006 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by Brian
12-24-2006 4:54 PM


Re: yet another nonsense off topic non-response.
They are the same person, although Scottness originally denied he was Rob, he was suspended for it.
Scottness never once denied that he was Rob. But he could have...
Even so, he is a liar, a thief, an adulterer, etc... And as such realized he needs a savior. And I have been saved, but you seem to confuse justification by faith with the transforming work of sanctification by fire.
The closest thing anyone said to me that approached the question, 'Are you Rob?' was jar... and all he said was... 'is this just Rob once again?'
To which I replied, 'Whoever Rob is... he must have tried to tell you this before.' And I then commented that Anastasia must also be an incarnation of Rob.
All of which was true since Anastasia was invited here by me after coming to much agreement in another forum.
But if not giving full disclosure is equal to dishonesty, then the right to remain silent is a license to deceive. it was my impression that it was to avoid being railroaded by the powers that be. In this case, you powers that be know who you are.
I had already made a confession to Schrafinator in another thread before AdimNosy suspended me. And when he did, I had the impression it was for claiming to be Rob, when he thought I wasn't. I'm not too sure now about that...
I said some pretty foul things to Nosy months back...
The fact is... before the forum was, 'I Am... Rob'
I am just happy to be participating. If you were to read some of my old posts, you would see the same vitriol coming from me, that all of us theists are barraged with to this day.
The fact I have matured and become more respectful is the only reason, I assume, that I am allowed to stay, and I am thankful for that. It's trail by fire.
Why others are given a pass is of no concern to me, as I now understand better what is going on here.
Merry Christmas all!
Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Brian, posted 12-24-2006 4:54 PM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by DrJones*, posted 12-24-2006 7:27 PM Rob has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 228 of 305 (372066)
12-24-2006 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Buzsaw
12-23-2006 6:57 PM


Re: Communication and Morality
quote:
Until recent centuries the majority of the cultures, tribes and nations of earth were not in communication with one another, yet for the most part some fundamental moralities and culture similarities were somewhat universal, such as murder, male leadership role, family structure, man/woman family role, et al.
Not really.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Buzsaw, posted 12-23-2006 6:57 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by Buzsaw, posted 12-24-2006 11:14 PM nator has replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 229 of 305 (372068)
12-24-2006 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Rob
12-24-2006 7:09 PM


Re: yet another nonsense off topic non-response.
But if not giving full disclosure is equal to dishonesty
Yes I'd say registering under a new name after having been banned from the forum is dishonest.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 7:09 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 10:05 PM DrJones* has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 230 of 305 (372071)
12-24-2006 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by crashfrog
12-24-2006 4:40 PM


Re: On Absolutes
quote:
That actions speak louder than words, which is why a Lawful Good Human Paladin, a Chaotic Neutral Elf Ranger, and a Neutral Evil Half-Orc Rogue can all be in the same party. At the end of the day, the villagers aren't going to be concerned that the Paladin fought the goblins for the glory of Heironymous, the Ranger fought them to impress the mayor's daughter, and the Rogue fought them for treasure and the thrill of killing.
That the goblins were exterminated from the surrounding hills and will no longer steal cattle and harass travelers is sufficient reason for the villagers to laud the adventurers as heroes.
Love the nerdy example.
quote:
That someone did the right thing for the wrong reason might make them a bad person, and potentially someone to watch out for in the future (because a habit of doing the right thing for the wrong reason pretty quickly becomes doing the wrong things for the wrong reason), but it doesn't make their actions morally wrong.
For all of you who DO like Firefly, I'm reminded by Crash here of the Janestown episode.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by crashfrog, posted 12-24-2006 4:40 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by crashfrog, posted 12-25-2006 12:17 AM nator has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 231 of 305 (372085)
12-24-2006 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by ReverendDG
12-24-2006 4:50 PM


Re: yet another nonsense off topic non-response.
thats BS and you know it, i like christians, i don't like overbaring, "i'm right no matter what!" type of people, that think they can win a debate by drowning the other person out with garbage
Is that Scottness acts? Is he overbearing or is he giving his viewpoint like everyone else? The fact is, people like Scottness and I get a lot of attention because people don't like our views. That's really all it boils down to, which would justify my comment that they derail him because of his views, not his assertiveness.
this is on both sides, but mostly i see on the fundie side, i find it insulting that you would assume this lie you posted is true of everyone, if anyone at all
I suppose that I could be insulted that you think I'm lying, rather than just believing that this is the perception. But I won't allow it to offend me because I'll just take it to mean that you either misunderstood me or that you are speaking out of anger rather than hatred.
Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : typo

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by ReverendDG, posted 12-24-2006 4:50 PM ReverendDG has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 232 of 305 (372093)
12-24-2006 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by DrJones*
12-24-2006 7:27 PM


The perfect moral example...
Yes I'd say registering under a new name after having been banned from the forum is dishonest.
(Ah! DrJones... You rascally super-slueth you... You'd make a great DA.)
What would you say DrJones, if I gave the following defense?:
No, it wasn't deceptive. I see no code in the EVC rules that says any such thing!
parenthetically, if you want to say I am guilty of deception, you must attempt to kindle some inner conscious and appeal to that ethereal Spirit of the law. But that is not admissable remember?
Even if the rules did, I operate under my own morality. I do not obey the morality of others. Why did they think they had the right to impose their morality upon me? It's not as though morality is absolute!
Of course I am being sarcastic! But do you see the point?
Yes DrJones... it was deceptive in some degree. And when I saw that you had noticed the same 'feel' in my posts I ignored it. I hoped it would go away. But then Shrafinator saw the same and jar was beginning to catch it. So I knew the jig was going to be up soon. I didn't care if anyone knew who I was. I was more interested in getting the points I try so hard to make accross because I believe they are valuable and meaningful. I believe you would benefit from understanding them.
My biggest fear was that I would loose patience and display the same intolerance that had got me into trouble to begin with. It reared it's head, but I nipped it in the bud after a slap from Asgara. For the Christian, the old beast does not die just because the new life lives within. It's nonstop hangups and self warfare. It's a slow takeover... an agonizing attrition of repentance and constant submission to what is right. it's like having a conscoius that cannot be ignored. It's like a coach that expects the impossible... all the time. The hardest and most challenging thing life has to offer. The abundant life!
I was afraid that if I was found out, that because I had been banned (which I confess implies permanency), that it would immediately be reinstituted.
I could have outright lied and continued to do so. it could never have been proven! But I decided it best to face the music. Not out of trust that I would be allowed to stay in light of tremedous advances in civility on my part (if I don't say so myself ), but in respect for what I preach. That is more important than me.
One lie, always leads to another. It's always wiser to get things out in the open sooner rather than later. Techinically, I had not yet lied, but it had reached the point where I would have to. But I did not want to minimize your intuition or your 'sense' of what was really going on because it is that 'fuzzy grey area' that I have been contending is where truth can be found and seen and understood, and followed.
What a great opportunity to make the point that morality is indeed absolute by implication even if not by proof.
Some things just cannot be proven... until there is a confession.
And that! ladies and gentleman... is how you use your own depravity, to the advantage of virtue!
Edited by scottness, : No reason given.
Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by DrJones*, posted 12-24-2006 7:27 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by DrJones*, posted 12-24-2006 10:24 PM Rob has replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 233 of 305 (372096)
12-24-2006 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by Rob
12-24-2006 10:05 PM


Re: The perfect moral example...
so basically your response boils down to:
blah blah blah its ok that I lie cause I'm trying convert the unbelivers, blah blah blah

Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 10:05 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 10:38 PM DrJones* has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 234 of 305 (372097)
12-24-2006 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by DrJones*
12-24-2006 10:24 PM


Re: The perfect moral example...
Even if I were pure as the wind driven snow, you would call me out of tune with the common experience of mankind and unable to relate.
Nothing has changed in two thousand years other than the ability for the West to understand and respect such wisdom. And that is the heart of the deterioration. It's an ebb and flow... and we're on the decline.
Here's to you DrJones:
Matthew 11: 16 "To what can I compare this generation? They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others: 17 "'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.' 18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners.'" But wisdom is proved right by her actions."
Just blow it off! You already know it's meaningless!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by DrJones*, posted 12-24-2006 10:24 PM DrJones* has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by nator, posted 12-26-2006 8:20 AM Rob has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 235 of 305 (372101)
12-24-2006 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by RickJB
12-24-2006 10:01 AM


Re: Communication and Morality
Rick writes:
In any case, the things you highlight have, in one form or another, been with human society thoughout history. Just grab a history book from any era of your choice.
1. Most have been around. The question of the thread is whether the items listed constitute a net deteariation of morality. Are there any items listed which fail to substantiate my point that global morality is on the decrease?
2. Are you trying to claim that city gang crime does not constitute morality decline or that it is not on the increase in the US, South America and other parts of the world?
Edited by Buzsaw, : spelling

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by RickJB, posted 12-24-2006 10:01 AM RickJB has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by jar, posted 12-24-2006 11:47 PM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 236 of 305 (372102)
12-24-2006 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by nator
12-24-2006 7:22 PM


Re: Communication and Morality
Schraf writes:
Not really.
Oh, I see. I never really thought of that.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by nator, posted 12-24-2006 7:22 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 11:31 PM Buzsaw has replied
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Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 237 of 305 (372104)
12-24-2006 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by Buzsaw
12-24-2006 11:14 PM


Re: Communication and Morality
Sir... it doesn't really matter whether we win this debate or not. Or whether one soul is saved by this excersize. Just trust me when I say that my eyes get misty in thanks to God for you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Buzsaw, posted 12-24-2006 11:14 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by Buzsaw, posted 12-25-2006 12:26 PM Rob has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 238 of 305 (372107)
12-24-2006 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by Buzsaw
12-24-2006 10:58 PM


Re: Communication and Morality
2. Are you trying to claim that city gang crime does not constitute morality decline or that it is not on the increase in the US, South America and other parts of the world?
Certainly.
Do you have any indication that it is higher than it was during the 1800s? Higher than during Imperial Rome? Higher than during Feudal Europe or Japan under the Shogunates?
So far all you have done Buz is make wild assertions and have presented not one piece of evidence.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Buzsaw, posted 12-24-2006 10:58 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by Buzsaw, posted 12-25-2006 12:19 PM jar has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 239 of 305 (372112)
12-25-2006 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by nator
12-24-2006 7:35 PM


Re: On Absolutes
Love the nerdy example.
Yeah. Honestly I find the bi-axial alignment system from Dungeons and Dragons to be a really great tool for clarifying the morality of actions and attitudes, as well as the difference between the moral value of an action and the ethical value of an action. (For the mundane - D&D describes an alignment as one of nine values along an x-y grid - Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic on one axis and Good/Neutral/Evil along the other.)
Jayne from Firefly is probably neutral evil.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by nator, posted 12-24-2006 7:35 PM nator has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 240 of 305 (372117)
12-25-2006 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Rob
12-24-2006 4:35 PM


Re: On Absolutes
Nothing in your post addresses the issue.
I quoted Jesus saying that what we do determines whether we go to heaven or hell. What we are doing, as a human race, is getting better, not worse.
Address that issue and keep the sermons to yourself.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 4:35 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by Rob, posted 12-25-2006 1:01 AM ringo has replied
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