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Author Topic:   A definition of infinity?
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5548 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 14 of 41 (372261)
12-26-2006 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Neutralmind
12-26-2006 3:52 AM


I can't get my head around that observation distorts or effects the results. How is this?
Or maybe we should take this conversation to a new thread...
The problem isn`t the observer per se, but the means for observing. in order to observe the electron, you would have to shine some light on it. The act of shining that light changes the behaviour of the electron and distroys the interference pattern. That turns out to be a general principle. No matter what you do, you cannot at the same time know which slit the electron went through, and still get the interference pattern. It`s just not possible.
But note that the interference pattern will still be distroyed even if you turn off the observing device but keep the lights on. You don`t really need to have a concious observer taking notes of which slit the electrons went through.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Neutralmind, posted 12-26-2006 3:52 AM Neutralmind has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Neutralmind, posted 12-27-2006 9:14 AM fallacycop has not replied

  
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5548 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 16 of 41 (372308)
12-26-2006 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Hyroglyphx
12-26-2006 12:41 PM


Would the outcome be different if we were to employ a different measuring device?
I'll quote myself
quote:
No matter what you do, you cannot at the same time know which slit the electron went through, and still get the interference pattern. It`s just not possible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-26-2006 12:41 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

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 Message 18 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-26-2006 2:19 PM fallacycop has replied

  
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5548 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 20 of 41 (372316)
12-26-2006 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Hyroglyphx
12-26-2006 2:19 PM


Re: Outcomes
I think we all agree with that premise but wonder why that it is.
It's a consequence of the uncertainty principle. In the first experiment, (Without the observer) the position of the electron is uncertain (We don't know which slit the electron went through). that allows for a less uncertain momentum which is the same as a more shaply defined wave-length (By the de Broglie's relation p=h/lambda). This shaply defined wave-length leads to the observed interference pattern.
In the second experiment the position of the electron becomes more determined and, by the uncertainty principle, its wave-length becomes blured (more uncertain) destroying the interference pattern.
Maybe its just not possible as of yet. I mean, who would have thought that matter behaved like a wave function or that by trying to observe the phenomenon would actually cause it to behave differently than when not directly observed?
I don't think so. the validity of quantum mechanics (QM for short) has been confirmed by a huge range of experiments to the point that it is not unreasonable to consider it incontrovertable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-26-2006 2:19 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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