|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total) |
| |
popoi | |
Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
Member (Idle past 4953 days) Posts: 228 From: jo'burg, RSA Joined: |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: The Results are in...There is a God! - What now? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes: would they be judged based on their willingness to surrender their right to make rational decisions and their acknowledgment that God knows best? They would be judged on how they used the gift(s) they were given. Suppose little Phat and little Ringo get identical toys for Christmas. Little Ringo takes his outside and plays with it, lets his friends play with it, lets the dog play with it. Within a few days, the paint is scratched, one of the wheels keeps falling off and the other three wobble. But a lot of kids have had a lot of fun with that toy and they still can. Little Phat, on the other hand, doesn't even take his toy out of the package. He looks at it admiringly, but he won't let anybody touch it. Years later, Phat sells his toy, in mint condition, for a small fortune. Ringo's toy has been lost or given away - he doesn't remember - but he remembers how much fun he had with it, so he buys a similar toy for his children. Which gift was used "correctly"? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3598 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
If we will not learn to eat the only food that the universe grows ” the only food that any possible universe ever can grow ” then we must starve eternally. (Lewis- The Problem of Pain) Quotes are nothing but inspiration for the uninspired. - Richard Kemph ___ Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Quotes are nothing but inspiration for the uninspired. - Richard Kemph Richard has his way with words.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Vacate Member (Idle past 4600 days) Posts: 565 Joined: |
Sorry Jon for the lateness of my reply, the holiday season has ruined my online time
quote:Various sources have made me question the validity of the bible. Some prime sources are the other religious texts, scientific results that show various events portrayed in the bible are not true historical events, and this very website as it shows there is much controvercy over the factual nature of the bible. I would be interested to see the evidence you have concerning the analogy you presented that prompted my reply! quote:15 years ago. quote:Nope, I just recieced a deep sense of loss and a feeling that I was unimportant enough to ignore. quote:The key to understanding this analogy is that the instructions claim to be good. There is however multiple instruction books and they all have different directions. Now with this information I am forced to discount all of them and instead try to incorporate the different methods into something that will hopefully lead to my desired conclusion. The cost is meaninless, the fact I have one try is also meaningless; I cannot simply hope that one set of instructions will, in fact, lead to my desired conclusion as I cannot take that risk. Instead I prefer to take the process very slow and try to understand all the various aspects before jumping feet first into a blind faith attempt at getting it right.
quote: Most-likely?? - Your eternity would depend on such a choice. You seem to say that perhaps your bookshelf may turn out to be a furnace. I have reason to believe that the instructions are incorrect, does this not worry you? The topic of this thread is if there was fact of a creator would this change how I live my life?
quote:If the bible is correct, then I would prefer a warmer climate thank you. If my agnostic outlook is correct, and the bible is not historically factual, then I would instead attempt to understand God's works instead of claiming to know God's mind. If evidence someday revealed that there is a creator - my outlook on the world would not change a bit.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
anastasia Member (Idle past 5953 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
Ringo writes: Which gift was used "correctly"? Ah, Ringo, your point is too relative, and too relevent. Toys come from parents (or whomever). If little Ringo shares his toy and it cost his parents dearly to provide it, it is not as correct as it could have been. If little Ringo shares his toy and his parents asked him not to, it is not as correct as it could have been. The same applies to Baby Phat. Sure they can do whatever they want with their toy, but in the end they may regret it because it was valuable, or simply because it hurt their parents.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3598 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
anastasia: Sure they can do whatever they want with their toy, but in the end they may regret it because it was valuable, or simply because it hurt their parents. This argument that generosity and engagement might be the incorrect choice is interesting... given the fact that Ringo's parable is practically a paraphrase of the Parable of the Talents (Mt 25). The master in that story took a stern view of the servant who preserved everything without touching it, even though the servant's stated motive was respect for the master. ___
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
This sounds a bit like the parable of the talents!
So in the context of that parable, lets say that the gift is the gift of freewill and the knowledge between right and wrong. I don't quite understand how you are applying the parable to the context. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
anastasia Member (Idle past 5953 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
Yes it sounds like the parable of the Talents. It is a bad analogy. The parable of the talents is in the Bible 1 time, and the parables, stories, and warnings about how to use our free-will are an unending topic.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
anastasia writes: If little Ringo shares his toy and it cost his parents dearly to provide it, it is not as correct as it could have been. But how can it "cost" God anything to give us a gift?
If little Ringo shares his toy and his parents asked him not to, it is not as correct as it could have been. The parents would be wrong to ask him not to share the gift. Most of the enjoyment of the gift comes from sharing it with others. And putting limits on the use of a "gift" makes it not a gift but a loan. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes: lets say that the gift is the gift of freewill and the knowledge between right and wrong. Let's say that the gift is the freedom to choose between right and wrong. Let's say that the gift is being able to figure out for ourselves what the consequences of our actions are. Let's say that God doesn't have to superimpose additional penalties on us. If we get punished for using the gift, why would we want it? If the results are in and there is a God, what now? Same as before. Do you expect God to force you to enjoy your toys? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3598 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
anastasia: Yes it sounds like the parable of the Talents. It is a bad analogy. On what grounds, other than your own decree, are we to label the Parable of the Talents 'a bad analogy'?
The parable of the talents is in the Bible 1 time, and the parables, stories, and warnings about how to use our free-will are an unending topic. I see. Even though the parable addresses the question of free will and its use, we are not to pay attention to it because Jesus only told the story once. Well, it's obvious you find the Parable of the Talents inconvenient. But you haven't even begun to make a credible case for ignoring it. The discussion, appropriately, proceeds. __ Edited by Archer Opterix, : HTML. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
anastasia Member (Idle past 5953 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
Archer Opterix writes: On what grounds, other than your own decree, are we to label the Parable of the Talents 'a bad analogy'? If Ringo used the Parable for the basis of his story, only he can confirm that. If he did use it, he has forgotten one element. The master in the story did indeed call for an account of the use of his gifts, and he did indeed punish the person who had buried his talents. Not with hell fire, but by throwing him out into the darkness.
I see. Even though the parable addresses the question of free will and its use, we are not to pay attention to it because Jesus only told the story once I am sorry if this is what you understood from my post.
Well, it's obvious you find the Parable of the Talents inconvenient. But you haven't even begun to make a credible case for ignoring it. The discussion, appropriately, proceeds. It is obvious that you have that disease of reading into a post things that are simply not there. There is nothing inconvenient about the Parable, and why should I make a credible case for ignoring something I don't wish to ignore?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
anastasia Member (Idle past 5953 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
Ringo writes: The parents would be wrong to ask him not to share the gift. Most of the enjoyment of the gift comes from sharing it with others. And putting limits on the use of a "gift" makes it not a gift but a loan. In your analogy you did not mention the degree of accountability each child had to his parents. You also did not give an example of good or bad, you gave two acceptable good uses of a toy which can only be termed 'correct' or 'incorrect' relative to the desires of the givers. Gift, loan, whatever, I don't know a parent alive who doesn't get angry when a child breaks a new toy, and in many cases they certainly do punish them for their use of the gift. Say baby Eve has a new toy and she shares it with her sister. Say baby Lala has a new toy and she bangs it on her sister's head. What happens to baby Lala and her gift?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
anastasia Member (Idle past 5953 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
Ringo writes: Let's say that the gift is the freedom to choose between right and wrong. Let's say that the gift is being able to figure out for ourselves what the consequences of our actions are. Let's say that God doesn't have to superimpose additional penalties on us. If we get punished for using the gift, why would we want it? I am having trouble drawing the line between 'the consequences of our actions' and the 'additional penalties'. They are one and the same. You may feel free to tell me some consequences that are a sure fire result of our choices, if you can think of some. But please try to make it a little challenging. BTW...if you don't want your free-will, there are a lot of prayers out there that will help you surrender it back to God.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3598 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
anastasia: It is obvious that you have that disease of reading into a post things that are simply not there. There is nothing inconvenient about the Parable, and why should I make a credible case for ignoring something I don't wish to ignore? I look forward to reading your discussion. __ Archer All species are transitional.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024