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Author Topic:   INTELLIGENT DESIGN: An Engineer’s Approach
johnfolton 
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Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 196 of 302 (372229)
12-25-2006 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by cavediver
12-25-2006 8:48 PM


Re: Speaking as a Christian, what is wrong with Dawkins quote?
Most people are immensely ignorant concerning evolution. It is no insult.
I believe the insult is Dawkins and other Darwinians willfull ignorance of the creationists and the ID movement.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

KJV Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5613 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 200 of 302 (372241)
12-26-2006 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 197 by crashfrog
12-25-2006 11:25 PM


Re: Speaking as a Christian, what is wrong with Dawkins quote?
The ignorance of creationists and evolutionists in regards to their opponents arguments is not symmetric.
Since the creationists and the IDers agree that micro-evolution (natural selection) trumps macro-evolution they are not ignorant of evolution. They are not willfully ignorant of the evidence of evolution but simply following where the evidence leads.
They are scientists thus basing their belief on the evidence in the natural that macro-evolution is not evident in the natural. The evolutionist's like Dawkins say they are insane to believe the evidence. This all makes one wonder if Dawkins is simply being willfully ignorant of the evidence.

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5613 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 202 of 302 (372244)
12-26-2006 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by fallacycop
12-26-2006 12:49 AM


Re: Speaking as a Christian, what is wrong with Dawkins quote?
Since you (Or anybody else that I`m aware of in these fora) have not presented a workable definition of what macro/micro-evolution is (and the difference between them),
An example of what trumps macro-evolution is that there are no different kinds of wings today from those found in the fossil record.
This is the kind of evidence that Dawkins and Darwinians are willfully ignorant.
This kind of evidence does not support macro-evolution in respect to the origin of the species.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5613 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 216 of 302 (372425)
12-27-2006 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by Archer Opteryx
12-27-2006 4:48 AM


Re: the intelligently designed toothache
evolution is supposed to explain the origin of life
that if evolution can't, nothing in science can
that if science faces unanswered questions in some area, the only solution is ID.
I agree that evolution fails to answer origin however ID creationism has continually answered this question. That design even the tooth is intelligently designed. Sciences attempts to deal intelligently with the tooth is only causing dental decay, its not the false belief in the tectonic plate sciences but toothache is more caused by the flouride intelligently applied in the form of toothpaste, drinking water that is a root cause of dental decay.
Science in respect to the intelligently designed tooth would do better to go to a genesis diet where the phosphates in the foods would help regenerate the tooth by the intelligent designers genesis diet.
We should all realize by now the whole reason for flouride toothpaste is to increase tooth decay (profit for the dentists) and this is a reason science going contrary to root chemistry needs of the tooth.
Evolutionists comparing plate tectonics to tooth decay is actually how they view the sciences in regards to evolution. They pretend it has nothing to with the origin of the species. Perhaps they are moving away from Darwins origin of the species because they realize evolution has failed to answer origin.
The tooths nutritional needs is an example of an intelligence behind the tooths ability to regenerate (recrystalize) if given phosphates foods that are within the genesis diet. Evolution is mans intelligent alternatives like flouride that causes decay, gingervitis, but The Intelligent Design is like the phosphates in the diet in that it helps in the regeneration of the tooths enamel.
The earth was intelligently designed even to the foundations of the earth. The fundementalists that are supporting the ID movement because of the bibles inference that the earth is round by the Lord sitting on the circle in the heavens. Science would like to take credit but well the bible said it first that placement of the stars is due to the intelligent designer. The size of the sun moon due to the designer placing their in the sky and that it was good. Thermodynamics agree that it was good if the sun was any closer or farther life itself could not of survived. The bible has answers in respect to the origin of the species and not the evolutionists willful misinterpretation of the bible.
The bible itself is evidence of intelligent design, but science true sciences that is only agree with the written word.
The evolution theory is baseless in respect to origin. Thus I can only but agree with you that it does not answer origin.
Micro-evolution does however answer origin just one little example is in that the wings of all the fowl from the insects to the bats are all found in the fossil record no different kinds of wings found today. No evidence of macro-evolution of a different kind of design change of the basic wing designs.
All the evidence of the fossil record shows is that no transitional wings between the multitude of wings expressed in the fossil record.
The evidence of structure is that the genetics that form the mechanical design support ID in respect to origin.
Mutations and such if wings evolved in respect to origin would leave evidence (all the wings today should be drastically different from the fossil record) its this lack of evidence that Darwinians are willfully ignorant. Dragon fly wings, totally perfect in design but totally different from the butterfly wing, totally different from the bird wings, which are totally different from the bats wing in design and genetics with no transitional evidence going back to when there was only bacteria in the fossil layers.
Truely the structural genetic information only support the fossil record came suddenly completely perfectly designed from its beginning and that no evidence they macro-evolved to the present but only natural selection of the forces of micro-evoltion as put forward by the creationists.
All these different kinds of wings might support evolution if there was only the missing key of massive transitional evidences.

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5613 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 227 of 302 (372480)
12-27-2006 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by nator
12-27-2006 4:45 PM


Re: Sex organs and ID
After birth the umbilibal cord pulsates valuable nutrients that creationists believe were designed by the creator to jumpstart the child at birth. In fact these nutrients are so valuable doctors are clamping the umbilical cord thus preventing these nutrients from pulsating to the child.
-----------------------------------
Mothers are signing a form to discard the umbilical cord but would they be so willing to sign if they understood by signing this form are depriving their child of his right to these powerful nutrients.
Forbidden

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5613 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 228 of 302 (372483)
12-27-2006 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by limbosis
12-27-2006 2:35 PM


Re: the intelligently designed toothache
Now, do you have any authentic evidence that this god is NOT driving the corruption you allude to?
I could find no evidence that the God of the bible is driving the corruption. Its likely the god of this world that is driving the corruption to weaken the health of the world.
One reason why is that flouride affects the mind and this was why Hitler used flouride is said to manipulate the minds of the peoples.
Conspiracy theories is a bit off topic, so nuff said, etc...

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5613 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 254 of 302 (372670)
12-28-2006 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by limbosis
12-28-2006 1:19 PM


Re: common sense?
Why would the "God" of the bible allow the god of this world to drive that corruption? Do you know something I don't?
Perhaps so the truth be known and the untruth expose the god of this world. The bible does not say why exactly, the Lord says not to tempt his Father but to pray to be delivered from evil, etc...
All Gods creatures are designed to age, thus even our time on this earth is but by design. The DNA teleromes get smaller, all our cells age except I believe the male sperm does not age, but that too is evidence of ID in that the genetic information is not compromised by the aging of the rest of the body, so we age and a new generation comes to life.
God of the bible designed the child birth to be natural to leave the umbilical cord alone. However doctors are taught the proper method is to clamp the cord if they wish to practice medicine.
The truth is there is no reason to clamp the cord unless the mothers or childs life is threatened. Why is the doctor clamping the cord? Is not all this all a part of the god of this world defying the God of the bible. The bible says the god of this world is a liar, thief, murderer, etc...
The natural birth is an example of an intelligent designed birth that has few complications to the mother, child, and little risk of infections.
Doctors are now killing third world countries children by bringing this abomidable practice of cutting the umbilical cord. All over the world children were being born naturally without infections and now they are dying of infections due to the abomiable practice of cutting of the umbilical cord.
The baby naturally after breathing closes down the valves on his side of the umbilical cord and only then does the mothers massive arteries supporting the umbilical cord get shut down.
The mother should bleed to death due to the size of the arteries but the intelligent designer has a special way of closing these arteries so the mother does not bleed to death.
Instead of letting the child and the mother naturally clamp down on each side of the umbilical cord man has to do the abominable thing to clamp down prematurely causing caviation of the heart heart due to this needed volume of blood missing to jumpstart its life and then naturally close down the valves. The mothers life is threatened because her arteries are not naturally closing in response to the childs but suddenly, etc...
The creator in his wisdom knew the heart needed to be primed with the blood of the umbilical cord, but the god of the world has doctors denying the child this prime blood source.
The entire birthing naturally is all an example an intelligent design in respect to the umbilical cord.
------------------------------------------
Anther example of Intelligent Design is the Creator designed the vitamen B17 in the food seeds that are designed to kill the cancer cell naturally. Its like a smart bomb from our creator to his creation in respect to cancer prevention.
The god of this world has had this vitamen banned because its intelligently designed by the creator.
Fortunately one can supplement ones diet with almonds, whole grains and alpha sprouts, etc... and get this vitamen naturally. It has for the most part been taken out of our food chain, its not in the multi-vitamens,etc...
--------------------------------------------------
According to research from years ago, provided by nutritionists and medical scientists, vitamin B17 is a natural cyanide-containing compound that gives up its cyanide content only in the presence of a particular enzyme group called beta glucosidase or glucuronidase. Miraculously, this enzyme group is found almost exclusively in cancer cells. When it is found elsewhere in the body, it is accompanied by greater quantities of another enzyme, rhodanese, which has the ability to disable the cyanide and convert it into completely harmless substances. Cancer tissues do not have this protecting enzyme.
So, according to past scientific knowledge, cancer cells are faced with a double threat: the presence of one enzyme exposing them to cyanide, while the absence of another enzyme found in all other normal cells results in the cancer's failure to detoxify itself. Leave it to nature to provide a form of cyanide that can naturally destroy a cancer cell. The cancer cells that are unable to withstand the cyanide are destroyed, while the non-cancerous cells are not threatened by the cyanide, and, therefore, remain unharmed. Never underestimate the body's potential!
Vitamin B17 is found naturally in many foods. If you eat foods containing vitamin B17, your body will know what to do next. All other animals in nature instinctively do this. Consider it nature's cancer prevention. If only modern medicine would allow it.
Detox Article: August 2006 Archives
P.S. Doctors are a worthy profession the problem is not the doctors but how the god of this world is compromising the health of the peoples.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, :
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5613 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 273 of 302 (372752)
12-29-2006 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by Percy
12-29-2006 10:16 AM


Re: common sense? Prevention
Were talking prevention to nip the cancer before it manifests, if one has cancer that needs to be addressed by professionals. However that does not make laetrile (b17) a quack quack remedy. People die for a lack of knowledge and eating 15 almonds a day, alpha sprouts is not detrimental to ones health. It has bonified scientific studies that the cancer cell is targeted by this vitamen. This is an example of intelligent design.
------------------------------------------------
They find seagull fossils in the fossil record, once a seagull always a seagull ring species or not. This is only an example of ID micro-evolution along the heavy metals causing mutations. Because seagull wings are expressed in the fossil record no evidence of macro-evolution.
Breeders are breeding new species of birds, dogs, but they are still only a dog, or a bird. No new kinds are being created even when they use mutagens to create change.
The creationists are fully aware that the mutagens is the believed basis for the unclean creatures making the creatures genetically unclean because of their diet. The bible says some gentile unions basically were eating unclean foods and a Jew and a gentile biblically can mean the offspring is not considered clean until after the 10th generation.
The breeders agree with the bible that genetic diseases expressed take up to 10 generations for the mutated genes to be not to be expressed in the offspring. If the Jews within their congregation were allowed to marry the gentiles it would of affected the Jewish gene pool much like the ring gull mutations are causing ring species, etc...
Mutations are not evidence of macro-evolution simply new species within the kind that was originally created as evidence by the fossil records of sea gulls. If sea gulls were a new kind of creature that would be evidence of macro-evolution. The fossil record goes back to when their was only bacteria in the sediment layers thus no evidence supporting macro-evolution that sea gulls did not exist in the beginning. Ring species is only evidence that were seeing micro-change not macro-change which does not answer origin.
The multitudes of dogs is not evidence that they are a new kind of creature just a different species of the same kind of creature. This is only an example of micro-evolution as expressed by the ID peoples including the creationists.

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5613 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 277 of 302 (372777)
12-29-2006 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by Phalanx
12-29-2006 12:32 PM


Re: common sense? Prevention
Find me one clinical study, that's been done by a reputable source, and can be repeated, and you might begin to change my mind. Stop believing everything you hear. There are absolutely no studies that vindicate amygdalin's use.
It appears there is plenty of reasons not to believe everything you hear in regards that no studies vindicate amydalin's use. The god of this world is a liar thus the cover up. Why did the Sloan-Kettering present just the opposite point of view compared to the lab results leaked to the press that proved otherwise. Money is said to be a root of evil perhaps cancer is a buisness and healthy peoples would affect profits or the drug companies, or perhaps the god of this world presents a lie as if its the truth. Thankfully the people leaked the evidence that vindicates amydalin's use.
It appears that Vitamen B17 (laetrile) smart bomb qualities is another example of intelligent design.
--------------------------------------------
On a much more serious level was the well-publicized Laetrile test conducted at Sloan-Kettering in the 1970s. The final report stated there was no evidence that Laetrile was effective. However, employees inside Sloan-Kettering secretly sent copies of the actual lab reports to the press that proved just the opposite. Dr. Ralph Moss, who was Assistant Director of Public Affairs at Sloan-Kettering, was one of the whistle-blowers. He was fired because of it.
The Sloan report was an insult to truth and a prostitution of science.
A well-documented account of this episode is the chapter entitled "Genocide in Manhattan," in World without Cancer, by G. Edward Griffin.
It will change your view regarding the integrity at Sloan-Kettering.
http://www.cancure.org/letters.htm
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5613 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 288 of 302 (372841)
12-29-2006 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Phalanx
12-29-2006 1:42 PM


Re: common sense? Prevention
The lack of any corroborating evidence tells me that amygdalin, at this point in time, is not a remedy for any form of cancer, nor has it been shown to prevent cancer.
Dr Robert Good misrepresented Sloan study and it was presented as evidence and Dr Kanematsu Sugiuraf was asked if he recanted. In spite of this evidence presented as truth he stood upon what he knew to be the truth.
Another Italian Dr Guidetti said he cared not what the United States believed. When the Sloan study showed they lied to get Dr. Kanematsu Sugiuraf to recant it only confirmed Dr. Kanematsu Sugiuraf saying I stand and won't recant.
They also tried to bully Dr. Guidetti but he stood too and rightfully so because hes not bound by the FDA's marriage to the drug companies profits. His testimony is based on his personal experience treating patients in Italy thus he was not intimidated but only testifying what he personally saw within his own clinic.
THE POLITICS OF DEATH
"Few if any names in cancer research are as widely known as Kanematsu Sugiura’s... Possibly the highest regard in which his work is held is best characterized by a comment made to me by a visiting investigator in cancer research from Russia. He said, "When Dr Sugiura publishes, we know we don’t have to repeat the study, for we would obtain the same results he has reported."" So wrote Dr C Chester Stock, head of Sloan-Kettering’s cancer drug-testing division.
Dr Kanematsu Sugiura, arguably America’s leading cancer biochemist of the ”70s, was given the task of researching B17 laetrile/amygdalin to determine whether it could prevent or regress cancer. After a five-year series of trials during which Dr Sugiura eminently proved the startling effectiveness of this treatment, his peers convened a press conference in New York. Dr Robert Good, President of Memorial Sloan-Kettering Institute where Dr Sugiura worked, rose to his feet to address the gathering:
"After careful and exhaustive testing of laetrile, it was found to possess neither preventative, nor tumor-regressant, nor anti-metastatic, nor curative anti-cancer activity."
"Dr Sugiura!" a reporter suddenly shouted. "Do you stick by your belief that laetrile stops the spread of cancer?"
The room suddenly became very quiet as the TV cameras turned on the elderly Japanese doctor for his reaction. Dr Sugiura calmly looked the reporter in the eye and, in a clear voice, replied, "I stick!"
Italy: Professor Etore Guidetti of the University of Turin Medical School. Dr Guidetti addressed the Conference of the International Union Against Cancer held in Brazil in 1954 and announced startling results with laetrile in successfully combating many types of cancer, including cervix, breast, uterus and rectum. After his speech, an American doctor rose in the audience, challenging the Italian professor that laetrile had been found to be worthless in the United States. Dr Guidetti was abrupt and dismissive: "I care not what was determined in the United States. I am merely reporting what I saw in my own clinic ."
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On a much more serious level was the well-publicized Laetrile test conducted at Sloan-Kettering in the 1970s. The final report stated there was no evidence that Laetrile was effective. However, employees inside Sloan-Kettering secretly sent copies of the actual lab reports to the press that proved just the opposite. Dr. Ralph Moss, who was Assistant Director of Public Affairs at Sloan-Kettering, was one of the whistle-blowers. He was fired because of it. The Sloan report was an insult to truth and a prostitution of science.
http://www.cancure.org/letters.htm
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

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