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Author Topic:   Creationists Cannot Define "Kind".
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5058 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 8 of 69 (36290)
04-04-2003 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Quetzal
04-04-2003 1:13 AM


a kind of cell collective
When it comes to mammals everything seems to be in the nose but Lewontin dodged some such question in the TRIPLE HELIX by using the chin instead. I recently had the bizzare idea in beginning to think out some of the potential "homologies" in CAM-SAM modulation networks (an error on account no doubt of not have clear cell collective boundaries in mind (chin vs nose etc)that turtles and crocs (back ossification vs face ossification) are chemically in a subset closer to playtpus and that marsupials arrived with squamtes as close as the reproductive connection goes, and that birds and frogs are grouped as well as horses and dinos.
By honing my sense of moleuclar biology I think I may in fact be begiing to percieve the edge of the DNA mania of sturucture similarity. In the end it(my view) or if these pics (nice by the way) are of one kind or another on the a LIMIT (inifitite serial representation)not a bound that the molecules could be banked bioinfomatically.
I just am not familiar enough with these critters to say.

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Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5058 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 23 of 69 (37087)
04-15-2003 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Brian
04-13-2003 3:09 PM


reader reading
BUD-
how small are the pieces?
S. Wolfram has thought certainly Against S. Gould's core natural selection support that mutations may be added BY RULE one base pair at a time.
Frege Had criticized Cantor for being unable to say LOGICALLY how it "can be" that one can by abstraction or by application in science take OFF the last number back to the ones agreed on (the finite ones) but note that Gould is only argueing the evidence in light of a LOGICAL proposal that the evidence can decide one way or the other so that in the logic of any challenge to Fisher in general or in specific the one about species (these two different shaped rodents above etc) DURATION longer than individual competition (any selection in the pictures of the kinds one could have guessed were represented) BY CYCLE (I have my own exemplar interms of a Bufo from S. Cali.) I need to know HOW SMALL are we too to go?
What if indeed it is possible to CREATE a KIND by ORTHOSELECTION of fixed point mutations that only show up today as netural in statistical testing? That this selected mammal created the SHAPE distinctive of it chin perhaps in correlated sex bias change to dual use of nose in sexual relations AND food finding??
IF you got this far it only is required for me to show how the molecular embryology of such is possible to CREATE a Kind and then I would need $ to falsify to the proposal. I have started to work this kind of thing out for the DESIGN of toads so I am not sure I could timely provide the same for this guys"" but the problem is not that of getting to the price of research but permitting alternative resarch to begin with. You ask if we can SEE if creationist have anything to offer.
Clearly the offering is in the proposal when not the result. I am becomeing increasingly confident in this position as the kind of "species selection" that the philosopher Richard Boyd proposed to me seems prima facie false and Gould's use of the same seems to (possibly) be reduced to Wilson's proposal of group selection which I heard HIM give in a form at Cornell in the 80s that seemed apriori correct but then again my analytic can certainly be off topobioloigcally here.
Hope this helps the writers.

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 Message 15 by Brian, posted 04-13-2003 3:09 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Brian, posted 04-16-2003 1:33 PM Brad McFall has replied

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5058 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 25 of 69 (37125)
04-16-2003 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Brian
04-16-2003 1:33 PM


Re: reader reading
I may have been just as suprised as you when I "uncovered" Muller's notions of figures BETWEEN genotypes and phenotypes that he NAMED-- hypomorph, ammorph and antimorph=neomorph. It is my feeling that Gould felt free WITHOUT addressing the question that Wolfram raises as to mutations coming by simply programing (aka since no "interative" (think self-reproductive) 'program' biologically was so far found) to use the word neomorph for the positive use of contraint in biology and exclusively without the screen of negativity AND he accomplishes this by DIVIDING creationists into legit and illlegit classes calling on programmed cell death etc as a potential epiphomena. If Dawkins for instance is upset with this kind of Gould thinking then I would be in some agreeement with him but I do not think that genic selectionism is a good as Wright's critique of both Dakwinsish stuff and Gould specifically nevertheless I do not claim to know how or if Dobshanky's assertion of mutations proportional to time is the philosophy that Gould sediments.
Now reading a SET as hoxology allows one to use Wolfram's "program" to BE the answer to Frege's criticism of Cantor's "counting back" then by abstraction but in this case in topobiological reality whether with or without Neural Darwinisms but some truth would have to accrue to Wolfram's materiality for this to be atomistically the case.
no one knows.

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 Message 24 by Brian, posted 04-16-2003 1:33 PM Brian has replied

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Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5058 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 29 of 69 (37217)
04-17-2003 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Budikka
04-16-2003 11:16 PM


Bud,
when you say"virulence" are you aware of the attempts to put as you put it, "truth" into the equations and questions of biochange depend on some such in truth interpretation of this word as to the relative importance of recessives and dominats that in one evolutionists instance amounted to a rather seemingly aprirori claim about the HOST (not the biological term)vigor DECREASES with increase in virulence no matter the mode or rate of gene flow? Others such as my friend Simon Levin thought this could be answered by looking at clams etc but insisted on the inverted UR use of the delta symbol to encompass any next mutant that numerical approximations may increase the better than an approximation to the same decrement in the sense of the mode of change and yet there would still be not assertion as to the KIND in the sense of Kripke involved realistically that the day to day alpha taxonomist MUST deal with but it seems that you are concerned with how THIS is taught to children but I do not see you trying to create the environment event that such can NOT be taught in. This culture exists as well and we have seen it many times appear in incomprehension on both sides as if such were clear cut on this site.
Breaking bread is not as easy when it comes to working out the same WITHIN the creationist "territory" as you assert that this thread landed on but I do not find that you come up to your own admonission so I stipulate instead that you have got a "straight" answer if you only need ask yourself whether YOU yourself think that THINKING of the 3-D form of a creature FROM a 1-D series of base pairs is enough to get an answer from a creationist absolutely or an evolutionist acutally?
So there can be no more crying over spilled milk. I hope me eating meat is not a problem for your ticket to the chance we people all may be peacefully corerct. best. Brad. There is an MSN site on created kinds that I have contributed more material on this topic which is advertised on this board - so feel free to search for it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Budikka, posted 04-16-2003 11:16 PM Budikka has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Budikka, posted 04-19-2003 11:07 AM Brad McFall has replied

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5058 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 33 of 69 (37332)
04-19-2003 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Budikka
04-19-2003 11:07 AM


question without apparent answer
Sorry BUD but I have to disagree with your TYPO of "aa" and purely for scientific reasons haveing to do with the COMPREHENSION of evolutionary theory itself. Please try simply to state your case and not call people names or letters for that matter. A misspelling is forgiven.
You say "creationists" have not been able to define kind but I kindly have disagreed with you. If you read evolutionist stuff relative to this very question there is a sense in the literature that this attempt to come up with a DEFINTION is just a anti-evolutionist trick or tactic but I, Brad McFall, do not intend it this way so that before you site me on the Fisher/Wright TENSION which the evolutionists I know and not me see it as and call me a letter whether available by inbreeding in time or not please realize that such naming of species will not be tolerated on this board at least for much of a time that any bio change evolutioanry or creationist can occurr. I simply warn you what the admins can inforce.
I had earlier IN THIS THREAD, suggested by title use the term "cell collective" as the rubric underwhich I kind COULD BE DEFINED. This is an evolutionary concept from TOPOBIOLOGY but if I, brad, was to conintue in this thread or another I would in terms the best Huxleyite would adhere to use the character to show in like kind that squaring any kind with mendelian constancy is possible. I did not find you in this mood but do not say I did not suggest no way to understand the kind.
I even explictly distanced my self from Richard Lewontin's interpretation DIALECTICALLY and I feel somewhat confident that the pair in any legend he would use to discuss morphology whehter of marsupials or mammals is not the one I AM USING.
Perhaps I need a clarification from the admins that we have reached a state where there are polarizaed discussions going on ONLY with bipolar topic subjects??? Please understand this thread-head and admins that is a question much like is the whole NO ANSWERS IN GENESIS site only permitted to post there is NOO answer in the book of Genesis. If that is what you meant that I understand your question but as even an evlolutionist if cellcollectives rigorusly exist then even the evolutionist has to wonder if indeed the baraminologist had not already used some such MATERIALITY to define something that are not natural kinds and yet ARE NOT supernatural.
I am not a fool. Some help admins??
Can one only post on the INABiLIITY"" here when there are plenty of capable things that suggest that such is NOT what is able to be continued?
If threads themselves have even some such double polarization going on in the context of biological change I understand this both for MENDEL and for FISHER(vsWRIGHTorHALDANE) without saying what the creationist (my self ) thinks and so it would be eminently unfair in yet another generally interpreted as evolutionist(Croizat) sense and by fiat excluding another point of view for which I have always felt was not the rasion de existence of this board and policy of Percy himself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Budikka, posted 04-19-2003 11:07 AM Budikka has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by John, posted 04-19-2003 1:31 PM Brad McFall has replied
 Message 39 by Budikka, posted 04-20-2003 5:08 PM Brad McFall has replied

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5058 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 35 of 69 (37334)
04-19-2003 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by John
04-19-2003 1:31 PM


Re: question without apparent answer
guess I got hit by light-NING

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 Message 34 by John, posted 04-19-2003 1:31 PM John has not replied

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5058 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 37 of 69 (37350)
04-19-2003 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by NosyNed
04-19-2003 3:21 PM


Re: Clear?
Are you spiritual? I was confused by Bill Clinton myself.
The problem that may not be clear is called Woodger's Taxonomic Paradox that my MATERIAL way of concieveing from topobiology ?may? resolve some problems I but maybe you do not have with Huxley that may or may not bear on the topic in this thread but have to do with the details of bio-change that may be understood with one word "Bauplan" but that invovles issues of descent to which in the geometry of the arithemetic I may not be able to count let alone to more than tangentially approve of.
The point was that I had added** content that was slandered. That is all. best Brad. There is a difference between those who try to think with infinity whether purely theologically and those that insist on only orienting thoughts of bio-change from evolutionary perspectives.
My own motivation is to figure out if or how to get energy from the constant nature of forms across time and thus I am less concerned with the issue of species change than species stability.

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 Message 36 by NosyNed, posted 04-19-2003 3:21 PM NosyNed has replied

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Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5058 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 42 of 69 (37450)
04-21-2003 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Budikka
04-20-2003 5:08 PM


in progress
On replacing the biological notion of homology with a new transfinite genetics or preliminary quotations in preperation to JUDGE the alternative of Collet apparently contrary Thom that either the continuum is not well-ordered OR the 3 infinite proper subsets and inversion of the natural ordering of two of these substets exist (aka can Lewontin's coupled differential equation be disqualified by an answer to inspection as Collet requested by an intergration in adjudication.). I will accomplish this by talking MORE than Bertrand Russel who in PRINCIPLES OF MATHEMATICS delimted the worked thru creation/evolution confusion to the harmonic tune of "The kind which belongs to the rational numbers, and consists in having a term between any two we have agreed to call compactness; and to avoid confusion, I shall never again speak of this kind of continuity."
but we shall code the polymorphous set whether encoded or incodingj to the sound of the compaction that definitionally is continuous in the application of nanotechnology to mole bio with RNA between any DNA
for we shall find while testing Wolfram's NEW KIND OF SCIENCE that biodiversity informatic IT and bioinfomatics platforms will more efficiently become integrable during this judgement. There will be also criticism independent of the length of prolonging beyond Russel due to concommittant Macrothermodynamcis or better statistical mechanics of the dual translation and transcription into adherence, coherence and inherence classes for Haldanes putting of Wright use of geometric progreesion witll not be discarded apriror nor out of hand. This will become increasinlgy apparent in the lower limit of biological discouse as it will be herein stipulated that Kervran's potentially weak force biological transmutations will not be considered real in the sense of Cantor wanted religously or not to distinguish real and reel numbers no matter whehter one agrees with me or GOuld on Mayr etc as we mrshall with Cantor and Russell but agaisnt Dauben and others the non-existence of the infintiesmals as far as Wolfram's analgogy of natural selection and engineering goes (Immunology has the competence to make it practical as to the extent of LOGICal disagreement IN BIOLOGY) with linear numbers (no matter the "fractal" but with WOODGERS logic of the bauplan) learning to seperate and keep seperate IN COMPUTERS geometric and arithmetic statistics (of biometry)
Huxley-Evolution:The Modern Synthesis Chp3 Mendelism and Evolution 1. Mutation and Selection "The essence of Mendelian heredity is that it is particulate. The genetic constitution is composed of discrete units. Each kind of unit can exist in a number of discrete forms. The hereditary transmission of any one kind o funit is more or less independent being a partial one, concerned with the phenomenon oflinkage." p47
Dauben-p293 "Cantor had never been content with a purely mechanical physics. Above all else, it seemed destined to promote materialism which he attributed in large measure to Issac Newton and to Newton's faulty metaphyiscs.74 As an antidote, Cantor sought what he called an organic theory of nature determined with the same mathematical precision as Newton had brought to his materialistic, mechanical philosophy. The key to this new organic approach was to be found, Cantor believed, in his transfinite numbers:
The elements of the set M in question are to be thought of as seperate; in the intellectual copy of M^_, which I call its order type, the units are nevertheless joined into an organism. In a certain sense these order types may be regarded as a composite of matter and form; the conceptually distinct units contained therein comprise the matter, while the order of these elements corresponds to their form.75"
Quantity
Mendelp8 "Henceforth in this paper those characters which are transmitted entire, or almost unchanged in the hybridization, and therefore in themselves consitute the characters of the hybrid, are termed dominant, and those which become latent in the process recessive. The expression "recessive" has been chosen because the characters thereby designated withdraw or entirely disappear in the hybrids, but nevertheless reappear unchanged in the their progeny, as wioll be demonstrated later on."
This reappearence may be signaled by the collection of ordinals forming a cardinal apparent in the progeny. However to be as fair as possible in the end to Fisher one must either actuall discount Huxley account of mendelizing gene diffences in the absolute (by failure ot analyize with the simply ordered sets?)or in particular some sematics lexically determinatble of his claim historically about the dropping of Medel's characters being false. This is a false fact in evolutionary law when not also simply the failure BOTH to have the French and recent Englsih translations of Cantor distinguish the real and reel numbers and the failure of geneticits to work the EXTERNAL variable no matter the approximation of the data to 3:1 to INFINITE I N I T E G E R S thus it may simply be that Huxley took Mendel's NOTION of REapperence of the recessive (defined and termed by Mendel) in the F2 as a PHSYICAL PRIOR disapperence WHERE if an infinite and not a finite integers rules the statical result is never THOUGHT as SPATIAL removal. This gets back to Russel notion that the SPACE would at least on Cantors notion be "religously" different and defendable with transfinites no matter the natura/naturatta distinction Dauben quite scholarly remanded BETWEEN philsophy and mathtmeatics so if molecualr biology can use continiuty of the rational power no matter the response to COllet with Thom or aginst Lewontins non-use of catastrophe theory in working in the EVOLUTION in topobiology then Huxley's HISTORICAL claim about genetics would be showable in a court of genetic paradigms to be the false fact I have already indicated it is.
A cardinal characterization of the hybrid thenleads to a search of the cardinals N0 , N1, N2,... to find an accessible one that the ordinals generated from this number created a numbering ( that is the difference of finite and infinite if you do not know this theology) thru the sexual union of ordinals that generates a next cardinal distributing simply ordered sets epigentically in the offspring as a form of the ordinals per ordertype.
As the sign Mendel used was A + 2Aa + a somehow the transfinite nimber in this taxa must have twice as much ordertype formation than the format of the cardinals and ordinals involved no matter the infinite symbol for the simply ordered sets involved in the well-ordering as expressed by the actually finite # reproductions per bio-change to some other well-ordering.
Quality
Mendel's Experiment with Hybrids of other Species of Platns @ "In Pisum it is known that the characters of the flower- and seed- colour present themselves unchanged in the first and further generations, and that the offspring of the hybrids display exclusively the one or the other of the characters of the original stocks. It iws otherwise in the experiment we are consdering" that this notion of Cantor's ASSUMPTION that every set could be well-ordered.
Is the difference of stress of cardinal numbers from the Grundlagen to the Beitrage and failure to
Magnitude
Mendel- "These two experiments are important for the determination of the average ratios, because with a smaller number of experimental plants they show that the very considerable fluctuations may occur. In counting the seeds, also, especially in Expt.2, some care is requisite, since in some of the seeds of many plants the green colour of the albumen is less developed, and at first may be easily overlooked. The cause of this partial disappearence of the gree colouring has not connection with the hybrid-character of the plants, as it likewise occurs in the parental variety. This peculiarity [bleaching] is also confined to the individual and is not inherited by the offspring. In luxuriant plants this appearance was frequently noted.
Dauben - "Again, since there was no largest element, one could imagine another number representing the entireity, in order, of numbers w+v. Denoting this entirety by 2w, it was possible to continue further:
2w, 2w+1,2w+2,...2w+v,...
In attempting ot characterize this mode of generation, Cantor allowed that w could be regarded as a limit which the natural numbers N (increasing monotonically) approcahed but never reached.^10 Lest the analogy seem entirely mistaken, he added that by this he meant only to emphasize the character of w taken as the first whole number following next after all the numbers nEN. The idea of w as a limit served to satisfy its role as an ordianl, the smallestg integer larger than any integer nEN.
This then was the second principle of generation. Whenever a set of numbers could be considered as limitless in extent, new transfinite numbers could always be generated by positing the existence of some least number larger than any in the given class. Cantor expressed the essential feature of this second principle of generation in terms of tis logical function:
I call it the second principle of generation of real [realen] whole numbers and define them more precisely: if any definite succession of defined whole real numbers exists, for which there is no largest, then a new number is created by means of the second principle of generation which is thought of as the limit of those numbers, i.e., it is defined the next larger of all of them.^11
By succesive application of the two principles it was always possible to produce new numbers and alsways in a completely determined succession in their most general formulation, such numbers could be wrtten as follows:^12
5.1) vow^u + v1w^(u-1)+...+vu."
Towards use of this transfinite presentation to better the goal of electronic species publishing by incorporting mutiatonal taxonomy phentically into classificatory biology
Huxley - "The particulate nature of inheritance enables calcualtions to be made as to the proportions of offspirng of didfernt types in different generations afters a xross. Like the atomic theory in chemisty, it si the basis of qunatiative treatment."
Mendelp34 It is otherwise with the exceptional cases cited. Gartner confesses even that the exact determination whether a form bears a greater resemblance to one or the other of the two upon the subjective point of view of the observer. Another circumstance could, however, contribute to render the results fluctuating and uncertain, despite the most careful observation and differentiation. For the experiments, plants were mostly used which rank good species and are differentiated by a large number of characters. for the experiments, plants were mostly used which rank as good species and are differentiated by a large number of characters. In addition to the sharply defined characters, where it is a question of greater or lesser similarity, those characters must also be taken into account which are often difficult to define in words, but yet suffice, as every plant specialist knows, to give the forms a peculiar appearance."
Dauben 132 Cantor reinforced his study of the philosophical status of his new numbers with a simple analysis of the familiar and accepted natural whole numbers. For both finite and infinite integers, they could be considered in essentially two ways. Insofar as they were well-defined in the mind, distinct and different from all other components of thought, they served "in a connectional or relational sense to modify the substance of thoughjt itself This reality which the whole numbers as expressions or images of processes in the world of physical phenopmena. This aspect of the whole numbers, be they finite or infinite, he termed transsubjective or tansient.
Cantor asseerted the reality of both the phyeical and ideal aspects of the number concept. These dual realityes, in fact, were always found in a joined sense, insofar as a concept possessing any immanent reality always had a transient reality as well. It is one of the most difficult problems of metaphysics to determine the nature of the connection between the two.
Recapitualtion--Huxley-"For ordinary natrual selection involving a simple dominant with a selective advantage of 1 in 1,000 (i.e. where the ratio of dominant to recessive changes from 1 to 1.001 in each generation) it will take nearly 5,000 generations to increase the proportion of the dominant from 1 to 50 percent, and nearly 12,000 more to raise it to 99 percent. For the early stages of selection of a single mutation which constant effects, when the tgeen is still very rare, dominants can spread much more rapidly than pure recessives, unless a certain degree of inbreeding occurs."
Andthus we have explained why Provine thought that no frcitional light between Fisher and Wright resulted in the kind of advance in thinking Mayr thought would have to occurr if the bag of beans meant anything for Boston Tea Party and as I had analyzed this situation before I had:Toward saving web generations my first analysis of this synthesis was without Corinthians: Acts:1-2; JOEL
Mendel*should* (no)(sic!) have expected 1:2 ratios with a chi square p=.99993 but rUther ("farther", further, futher) some deviation/clinamen addition due to small number of seeds, chance chromosome events and yet what Mendel said, was; "The dominant character can have here a double signification vz. that of a parental character, or hybrid-character. In which of the two significations it appears in each seperate case can only be determined by the following generation." (The translation^* said "determined" not "obtained" and is thus in fidelity to any conception of induction Mendel may have possessed) that when generalizing the computation to maximal universality no matter the equivalent sophistication this signification is dissolved (by so-called Provine "continuous diffusive effects")
The faliure of the mathematics of biology seems to have accurred wholy beacuse Fisher sided with Mendel's choice of the Cardinal while It increasingly looks to me like the more coordinated view of Wright (shifting balance) is likely to come out on top when the evolution not development aspects of topobiology are squared with development not evolution view of Mendel. There still is the reveresiblity when BOTH reverse lexicographic encoded polymorphic traits and entropy per any 2nd law of therm acutality in Macrothermodynacis is dynamized IN THE SYMBOLS (extra Gibbs term etc) outstanding in the grammer which either indicates an grammetological error on Mendel's part with USE of double signification, time for more use beyond Faraday's "bipolarization" of cause electronically and electrically flexible with Newton's "spirit" else any metrics involved in Einstein's rod and clock communityis acutlly compassed at least biologically.
- - - - - - - - - = = = - - - - - - - -- ---
But this only seems to establish that Collet's discrete correction by Thom if it exists in more truth is only that panthesism rules the continuum NOT (so) well-ordered no matter the application in biology.
Species' relation to the Ecosystem by answer to the above question prior to masters' review.
Cardinal + 4(1/2 ordertype) + ordinal= Mendel hybrid (baramincally or not?)
I use 4(1/2)=2 because Mendel noted spotting in progeny absent in progenitoprs and sister outp group compared IN COLOR.
Daubenp220 "Neither artithemetic nor the concept of number should be tied to any narrow domain of particulars - point sets,for example.
I assert that even if there were two reversed lexicograpic molecular biological ordering of the gene code available these would not even be constitutive in these point sets. Is not a point set of the collection localities of the hybrids' geographic distribution beyond the garden but a matter merely of the finite number of 1/2ed ordertypes between the distance isolation by distance (Wright) created multiplied by an integer (such as those Weyl asserts for aij; p100 between latice bases multipole Four in the same question Edelman opens both his own book TOPOBIOLOGY and Shcrodinger's WHAT IS LIFE??
Is this not a genetic basis fot the deductive biogeography Croizat sought for Panbioegoraphy but is yet to show expression with the Fourier Math of Cantor's ascending P SYMBOLS interms of Croizat "topography" but made metric in Wright's isolation by distnace reactived in transfinite terms?
References
Collet, F. What is the missing axiom in our trying of a well-ordering on the Continuum? in Bio-Math Bio- Mathematique & Bio-Theorique Tome XXXVIII 3`eme trimestre 2001 (N^o 151)
Dauben, Joseph Warren 1990 Georg Cantor His Mathematics and Philosophy of the Infinite Princeton University Press, Princeton New Jersey
Gould, Stephen Jay, 2002 The Structure of Evolutionary Theory The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press Cambridge Massachusetts
Huxley, Julian 1964 Evolution: The Modern Synthesis John Wiley & Sons, Inc., New York
Lewontin, Richard 2000 The Triple Helix Gene, Organism and Environment Harvard University Press Cambridge, Massachusetts
Mendel, Gregor 1965 Experiments in Plant Hybridisation Harvard University Press Cambridge
Russel, Bertrand 1903? Principles of Mathematics W.W. Norton & Company INC, New York
Weyl,Herman 1952 Symmetry Princeton Univeristy Press, Princeton New Jersey
Wolfram Stephen 2002 A New Kind of Science Wolfram Media, Inc. Champaign Ill.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Budikka, posted 04-20-2003 5:08 PM Budikka has replied

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Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5058 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 48 of 69 (37563)
04-22-2003 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by booboocruise
04-22-2003 12:21 AM


Re: Cats and?
Did you listen to last weeks SCIENCE SCRIPTURE AND SALVATION from ICR (if not log on to their site and you can down load the audio). Bud may indeed have an underdermined aleorelative between the MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE nature of his two points in this thread if he is correct but I already have said most of what I can and wanted at this time to say about it but do note that ICR is predicting that the bariminologist may indeed CONTINUALLY find that the field of exploration of what comes after a kind of continiuty (notice I did not say a "kind") at this post is narrower THAN what evo-devo seem to time out on etc. Specifically independent of my virtual conversation with Russel against Mayr's beans for birds anatomy tangently out space morphometrically it seems that this all (the denial of a kind suitable to evolutionary logic)may be about the reversible or not (by 2nd law etc) codablity of traits that using Saussare's philosophy one may discuss hermenutically the DOUBLE signification of HYBRID or PARENT, which niavely is just the word "family". And since I find that Mayr is correct that Gould's idea for or aginst Russel towards species' stuff then the bias sexually that a hierarchial selection new notion ADDS does not refound Mayr's founder but that is an argument wholly from evolution which in my own continuance may no matter this evo-devo development be a polymorhphic set I was kicked out of Cornelll for telling me that I was crazy to simply scan the Bauplan in to the computer and not to use any statisitcs. If I can resovle the LOGICAL difference in Poincare's materialism against Cantor (critically) then well... indeed even BUD two clear things that could not be done would already have been done. It seems to me what he wanted from me at least was a scholaly review and judgement of the creationist literature which I take it is behind his claim but he never seemed to have considerd me a resource as well.
For as I said earlier and now in agreement with ICR that this field narrows and does not expand. time will tell. I started this becuase you mention Cats and in the creationist lit there is a tendency to stress hybridization as a standard and I do not know if this is due to my own selection of materials to read or is indeed a way that bariminology IS going?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by booboocruise, posted 04-22-2003 12:21 AM booboocruise has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Budikka, posted 04-22-2003 9:32 PM Brad McFall has not replied

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5058 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 57 of 69 (37678)
04-23-2003 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Brian
04-23-2003 4:30 AM


Brad McFall
Thanks Brian,...
Budikka,
I am done with this thread, yes indeed, short of re-writing my entire reading for the only thing left to say IS NOT relevant to any kind of kind defintion but has to do with a reductionist approach within the reading I presented I have done and involves the progress of using Russels progressions and regressions in terms of flame spectra explaining the vertical extent of the light and the bearing such use in Quantum Mechanics bears/to have bore on any bonds in the chemistry a particular taxogeny with or without baramins results form and was in etc. You are free to continue without me as source of independent notions on the subject. I said my peace. Peace IN.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Brian, posted 04-23-2003 4:30 AM Brian has not replied

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5058 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 60 of 69 (38209)
04-28-2003 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by lpetrich
04-24-2003 6:17 PM


I would agree with the nettle of this wisp of wind interpretation as long as nothing "economically" for creationism changes but I have done a 180^o with respect to Phillip Johnson's suggestion that this century will see some kind of material change in naturalism. I now DO agree with the prescription but NOT for reasons of the addition of intelligent design to the "mix". I am not even very far from asserting that LAMMERTS was compelely correct about the materiality of current understanding of biology being inadequate to transfer "information" among generations able to even cobble together in Jacob's junk yard an organ no matter how much more all tissues does histogenically surface.
But unfortunately I do revert to your interpretation as I only have the symptom of Gould and Lewontin begging off any all new every mole biology and less even the actual correalation no matter the cause but this is not because I did not try. I do think that nano-technology will "force" us to recognize to the specific notion of Newton's "black body" (OUT of ALCHEMY?)the extent of APPLICATION atomically of forces to bio-change but if one can harness for food and energy the CONSTANCY of specific taxogenies remains an open question that can be fullfilled baramincally if evolutionists continue to refuse to engage this wisp-o-wasp of thought. no I am not a wrapper or a rapper nor...

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 Message 59 by lpetrich, posted 04-24-2003 6:17 PM lpetrich has not replied

  
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