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Author Topic:   Ancient ice shelf breaks free in Arctic - Signs of the end?
Vacate
Member (Idle past 2708 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 16 of 32 (373555)
01-01-2007 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Lysimachus
01-01-2007 9:58 PM


Apocalyptic Apathy
Lysimachus writes:

The Bible talks about "signs of the end", yet it does not necessarily describe just what all those signs might be.

I have not read the phrophecies, so I won't criticize before I have given it an honest attempt. So I will assume for now that these events are what you call "signs of the end".

The danger that I see in this view is that if you believe that these are just signs of the end what incentive does one have to try and actually improve the situation? Most of the worlds population seems to be sitting on their butt and doing nothing to prevent global warming. It is possible that this is part of Earths cycle, but there is no denying that humans are adding to the problem. What do Christians, who believe the prophecies are coming true, bring to the table as a solution to this problem? THE END IS NEAR! /cheer

All I see from the phophecies are an excuse to ruin our planet, encourage terrorism, and scan the news to find something, anything, that could be vaguely linked to a phophecy. This does not promote humanities development, nor make any attempt to save this planet.

Would it not be better to forget about the end times and try to fix these problems? If a tree falls on my car I don't see it as a sign and leave it for God to fix. This planet is all we have, its our home, it seems very unchristian to neglect it.

ABE:I found this article while reading a bit more on the ice shelf breaking away. If it has not been posted on EvC perhaps some readers may find it interesting.
Lohachara Island lost to rising seas

Edited by Vacate, : Added link


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Lysimachus, posted 01-01-2007 9:58 PM Lysimachus has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by doctrbill, posted 01-27-2007 1:02 PM Vacate has responded

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4022 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 17 of 32 (373557)
01-01-2007 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Lysimachus
01-01-2007 9:58 PM


Failed doom
A long procession of "end-times" prophets--starting with Jesus--have predicted the immiment end. They were all wrong. When someone gets it right, that person likely will be a scientist with good data, not a prophet.
Lysimachus writes:


Oh really? Last time I read, they were all right. And their prophecies apply more to our day than they did their own. I'm nobody's fool. You simply are reading their prophecies wrong.

By reading prophecies wrong it is presumed you mean literally :)

Let's pick a prophecy concerning the environment.

Isaiah 19:5-7 writes:


And the waters of the Nile will be dried up, and the river will be parched and dry; and its canal will become foul, and the branches of Egypt's Nile will diminish and dry up, reeds and rushes will rot away. There will be bare places by the Nile, on the brink of the Nile, and all that is sown by the Nile will dry up, be driven away, and be no more.

Did not happen! If you try to frame this environmental doom prophecy in terms of today, I invite you to reread the whole chapter as it clear that the context was for the then contemporary Egypt.

Lysimachus writes:

Well those Christians certainly arn't me.

You stand a lonely watch. However, I congratulate you as it is a logical position. If one believes that God created earth you would think that God would want his subjects to care for his creation, in the same way one would take care of a car borrowed from a friend.

Present-day Christian evangelicals view the earth more like a rental car.

Edited by iceage, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Lysimachus, posted 01-01-2007 9:58 PM Lysimachus has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30935
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 18 of 32 (373558)
01-01-2007 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Lysimachus
01-01-2007 9:58 PM


More than sufficient reason to ignore such prophecies.
jar writes:

The section that broke free is not that old, the ice being around 3000 years old.

to which Lysimachus replied:

quote:
And that's not old? For me, a Young Earth Creationist, that is half the age of the earth.

That alone is more than sufficient reason to ignore any of your prophecies of end times. If you are unable to evaluate the evidence for the age of the earth and the universe there is no reason to suppose you even have a clue of the significance of the Ayles Ice Shelf breaking free.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Lysimachus, posted 01-01-2007 9:58 PM Lysimachus has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14811
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 19 of 32 (373608)
01-02-2007 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Buzsaw
01-01-2007 10:09 PM


Re: Apocalyptic Signifigance.
Well we know how much your opinion is worth from your little argument over hurricanes.. I your opinion it's right to take the words of a penny stock website as fact because NOBODY ELSE AGREED WITH WHAT IT SAID ! To any rational person, if an unqualified person is making claims that none of the experts support, that is cause for skepticism - not uncritical belief !

quote:

For the skeptics, I suggest they consider the corroborating prophecies which are being fulfilled such as the phenomenal return of the Jews to their land to become a nation as prophesied by Jesus and the prophets, the industrial revolution, cultural changes and emergence of world government.

I guess I should look up our discussion of the Olivet Discourse so the skeptics can see just how poorly you understand the Bible. Suffice to say that the return is only mentioned in Luke although the Discourse is also found in Mark and Mattthew (who agree with each other almost entirely but present a significantly different account from Luke), the exile it refers to comes AFTER the Tribulation - which you insist hasn't happened yet, all the events - including the exile - are supposed to occur within the span of one generation - and I haven't even touched on the disagreements with Mark and Matthew.

The rest of it is your uncorroborated say-so. Where is the Industrial revolution prophesied in the Bible ? What specific cultural changes were prophesied by the Bible ? Where is your "world government ?

And why should I beleve a guy who boasts of having studied the Bible - and misrepresents it so often ? So far as I can see the whole point of your boasting is to try to stop people from checking up on your assertions - and finding out what the Bible really says.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Buzsaw, posted 01-01-2007 10:09 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
Brian
Member (Idle past 3067 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 20 of 32 (373615)
01-02-2007 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Lysimachus
01-01-2007 9:58 PM


Re: Reply to all.
Do you ever wonder if it's not?

Did your parents ever tell you that it is impolite to answer a question with another question?

Brian.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Lysimachus, posted 01-01-2007 9:58 PM Lysimachus has not yet responded

    
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4022 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 21 of 32 (373621)
01-02-2007 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Buzsaw
01-01-2007 10:09 PM


Prophecy right on.....
iceage writes:

I know Pat Robertson got caught up in the storm frenzy thing last year and came out swinging with in own prophecy which he failed miserably.

Pat Robertson at the beginning of last year predicted, based on a conversion with god, that there will be numerous storm strikes on the East Coast and a possible tsunami on the West Coast. Another doom and gloomer that should be ashamed and slink from the public stage. But no.... I predict that Pat Robertson will predict something yet again and his faithful will overlook failures.

Is it bad form to reply to your own post?

Just hours after writing this I find this story.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/02/robertson.predictions.ap

Pat Robertson writes:

I have a relatively good track record," he said. "Sometimes I miss."

Wow! What does one batting average have to be to considered a prophet or a false prophet?

Check out Robertson batting average and he couldn't make the little leagues.

Pat Robertson writes:


Even though the U.S. was not hit with a tsunami, Robertson on Tuesday cited last spring's heavy rains and flooding in New England as partly fulfilling the prediction.

People actually send this guy money? Send it to me please, hey I am batting 1.0 in 2007.

Edited by iceage, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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sidelined
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 32 (373632)
01-02-2007 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Lysimachus
01-01-2007 9:58 PM


Re: Reply to all.
Lysimachus

In post #1 ,in reference to the ice flow that broke free

It's the world coming to an end, that's what it really is -- whether people like it or not

Now in a different post in response to criticism you back off to this position

It's not a significant event, but it could be a smaller event that could be severely linked to a signifcant event.
{italics mine}

This is common with doom sayers and end time predictions. They are vague at best and the wording such that they can back off of any assertion they make by stating that they never said it would happen but only could.
For once in your miserable doom saying lives put forth a prediction with some meat on it will you? Time and date to within a day, location and specifics sufficient to show that the event is spot on with the prediction.People involved and their contribution. before the fact revealing of information that does not come out till a thorough investigation is done.

You would think that those who communicate with God would have a better grip on specificseh?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Lysimachus, posted 01-01-2007 9:58 PM Lysimachus has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30935
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 32 (373664)
01-02-2007 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Buzsaw
01-01-2007 10:09 PM


Apocalyptic Total IN-Signifigance.
Come on Buz. So far you have not been able to support a single example of these alleged prophecies being fulfilled anywhere but in your mind.

There's going to be a whole lot of super significant broken records regarding weather, seismic activity, and celestial phenomena, et al from now on.

Well duh? That is called learning Buz. And so far no one has shown that anything like the changes that have already happened in the past.

Earthquakes and violent storms will increase in intensity and frequency as we already observing.

You tried once to support that nonsense and failed totally. Want to try again?

Crops will fail big time.

Like happened during the Little Ice Age Buz?

For the skeptics, I suggest they consider the corroborating prophecies which are being fulfilled such as the phenomenal return of the Jews to their land to become a nation as prophesied by Jesus and the prophets, the industrial revolution, cultural changes and emergence of world government.

There is a Kingdom of Israel? I hadn't heard that. The Industrial Revolution? Chapter and verse Buz, chapter and verse? Cultural changes? Well duh. Emergence of world government? Where is that Buz. Didn't Bushie get the memo or was it that he couldn't read it?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Buzsaw, posted 01-01-2007 10:09 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 32 (373838)
01-02-2007 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
01-02-2007 10:37 AM


Re: Apocalyptic Signifigance.
I have proposed a thread on the corroborating prophecies. No matter how significant the evidence is, some of you will refuse to acknowledge it as you have in the past. I can't help that. The evidence is there as you have requested and for you to do with it what you see fit. Don't expect me to spend a lot of my valuable time arguing frivoloty. If you present a sound refutation, I'll address it.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28
This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 01-02-2007 10:37 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by jar, posted 01-02-2007 10:09 PM Buzsaw has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30935
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 25 of 32 (373841)
01-02-2007 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Buzsaw
01-02-2007 10:04 PM


Re: Apocalyptic Signifigance.
I saw that. Man I hope it gets promoted, talk about a collection of frivolity and nonsense.

That one will be a blast.

I'd say Fresh Meat if there was anything in it that hadn't been refuted a thousand times already.

To bad it is just more absolute hogwash.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Buzsaw, posted 01-02-2007 10:27 PM jar has responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 32 (373845)
01-02-2007 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by jar
01-02-2007 10:09 PM


Re: Apocalyptic Signifigance.
jar writes:

....I hope it gets promoted,....

LOL if you expect me to spend hours arguing the kind of substanceless excuses you usually offer up for alleged refutations. Like I said, soundly refute and I'll respond. Otherwise you'll be talking to yourself and other dogmatic skeptic friends.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28
This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by jar, posted 01-02-2007 10:09 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 30935
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 27 of 32 (373849)
01-02-2007 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Buzsaw
01-02-2007 10:27 PM


Re: Apocalyptic Signifigance.
Like I said, soundly refute and I'll respond.

Nah, I expect the usual material from you. You will not respond to refutations just as in the past.

The example of your first so called prophecy ...

Daniel 12:4 (about 530BC) Daniel says: "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."
Item: increase of knowledge and travel.

is so absurd that we cannot expect much. In fact the quote from Daniel actually says the exact opposite of what you allege. It say that Daniels will shut up the words and seal the book, implying that knowledge, instead or increasing, will get locked away.

To jump from "many will run too and fro and knowledge will increase" to a prophecy is about as significant as saying "the sun will arise tomorrow". It is pathetic, insignificant, ridiculous and totally trivial.

To claim that "run to and fro" indicates travel just shows that you have no idea what the phrase "run two and fro" means; that it refers to pointless movement as opposed to purposeful travel.

Kinda typical of the quality of the alleged prophecies you usually present.

If that PNT gets promoted it will be fun. Not very productive but a sure laugh a minute.

It is right in line with this thread, trying to connect an ice shelf breaking free to End Time Prophecy.

What a joke.

Edited by jar, : add r


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Mespo
Member (Idle past 992 days)
Posts: 158
From: Mesopotamia, Ohio, USA
Joined: 09-19-2002


Message 28 of 32 (374730)
01-05-2007 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Lysimachus
12-29-2006 9:48 PM


Never mind the forest fires...
What about the statistics coming straight from MSNBC news telling us that 2006 was a world-record in forest fires? Do these mean anything to you?

The same year that brought us record forest fires brought NO hurricanes to the U.S. mainland. And this means what, exactly?

I live in northern Ohio and I dropped 800 bucks on a new snow blower. Nada. Zippo. Nothing! The world had better end soon. I can't even get a refund!

(:raig


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Lysimachus, posted 12-29-2006 9:48 PM Lysimachus has not yet responded

    
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 872 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 29 of 32 (377488)
01-17-2007 1:45 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
01-02-2007 10:43 PM


Re: Apocalyptic Signifigance.
jar writes:

... the phrase "run to and fro" ... refers to pointless movement ....

I believe sir, that the truth of this matter can in no way harm your philosophy, although it may lead you to understand more fully the significant folly of certain popular interpretations. I am sorry to equivocate upon the immense insight of your orangosity but must point out the likelihood that this expression was intended as, and may be understood in terms of: a metaphor. To wit: the motion of searching through a scroll (running it back and forth)

The Hebrew word could serve as a root for our word 'shuttle;' not as a matter of conveyance but rather as a rhythmic motion. The veracity of this notion may be observed in the Hebrew lexicon shown on this page. Please pay special attention to the last entry, regarding metaphorical usage, and specifying Daniel 12:4 as prime example.

The angel seems to be predicting that knowledge of Daniel’s work would increase as people studied it heretofore. It is clearly not a prediction of the Scientific Revolution nor of the Information Age. It is not a prediction of automobiles or air travel. It is simply saying that someday, people will come to understand the book. And the author of Matthew believed that day had come in his own time: Matthew 24:15

Hope this helps; and if not then rise up and slap someone silly.

Thank You.


Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
This message is a reply to:
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doctrbill
Member (Idle past 872 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 30 of 32 (380477)
01-27-2007 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Vacate
01-01-2007 10:37 PM


Re: Apocalyptic Apathy
Vacate writes:

All I see from the phophecies are an excuse to ruin our planet, encourage terrorism, and scan the news to find something, anything, that could be vaguely linked to a phophecy. This does not promote humanities development, nor make any attempt to save this planet.

Hear, Hear!

Your observation goes to the heart of the matter.

As former CEO of a minor Environmentalist group, I was attacked in the media by a fundy preacher who asserted:

quote:
"The ecologist is in conflict with humanity ... God is going to roll up this old earth, throw it away, and give us a new one."

The preacher's venemous attack reminded me of where my own mind had been prior to becoming that of a godless eco-nut. I perceived that he spoke for much of Christendom and that his exegesis was incorrect. I believed that Chrisianity's festering religio-political chancre of disbelief required healing and that my best contribution to the environmental movement might be realized in effectively refuting such sermons. The man's words stimulated my return to Bible Study and, after a decade of research, my thesis:

Bible writers make no mention of planet earth.

It is not difficult to demonstrate the cause of confusion surrounding this term (earth). Resolution of the problem does not, in my opinion, lessen the beauty or meaninfulness of the holy scripture but rather purges from it the superfluous inanity called: "End Time Prophecy." My offering of fact in this matter has been resisted by hard core believers; not unlike the resistance offered to heliocentric theory. I find it interesting that the same people who once claimed that the Bible never mentions earth as a planet, are now saying that it does. Well, they were right the first time.

I have previously argued the point in this forum and would be happy to do so again if you are inclined to participate. We may be required to open another thread for that purpose.

Welcome to the Forum.


Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Vacate, posted 01-01-2007 10:37 PM Vacate has responded

Replies to this message:
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