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Author Topic:   Homosexuality, the natural choice? (Gay Animals are Common)
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 106 of 306 (375611)
01-09-2007 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Fosdick
01-08-2007 5:24 PM


Re: Gay "marriage" & gay genes
By way of what reasoning?
Go back and read the two paragraphs or so you cut off, there.
The whole "I'm just askin' questions" angle drops a notch in credibility when you ignore the answers.
Speaking of which, have you rented that porn yet? Were you able to choose to let it get you hot?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Fosdick, posted 01-08-2007 5:24 PM Fosdick has not replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 107 of 306 (375613)
01-09-2007 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by New Cat's Eye
01-08-2007 5:39 PM


Re: Gay "marriage" & gay genes
Oh, I didn't realize you were just trying to make us seem a bit silly. I thought you were saying that you can't choose to be gay.
The beautiful thing about arguing with people who say that homosexuality is a choice, is that you get to do both.
You can't choose to be something other than straight. So why would you assume that there are not gay people out there who can't choose to be something other than gay?
Edited by Dan Carroll, : clarity avoids semantic nonsense

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-08-2007 5:39 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-09-2007 12:13 PM Dan Carroll has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 108 of 306 (375645)
01-09-2007 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Dan Carroll
01-09-2007 10:10 AM


Re: Gay "marriage" & gay genes
You can't choose to be something other than straight.
I'm not so sure about that, but honestly, I've never tried.
I think you might be able to be forced into it. Or at least forced into it not being so bad, and then gradually learn to like it, but is that really being gay, I dunno.
So why would you assume that there are not gay people out there who can't choose to be something other than gay?
I had a friend that started hanging out with a new crowd, and then started saying they were gay and then when they stopped hanging out with those people all of the sudden they were straight again. I guess they weren't really gay, but they were really gay, if you know what I mean.
Also, there's no way, to my knowledge, to test whether someone really is gay or not. Does it always come down to what you are willing to fuck? It could be easy to fake it so certainly people could be choosing to 'act' gay. Of course you could say thay they're Not A True Gay-men.
All in all, I don't think you can say that someone can't choose to be gay.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Dan Carroll, posted 01-09-2007 10:10 AM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Dan Carroll, posted 01-09-2007 12:28 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 109 of 306 (375648)
01-09-2007 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by New Cat's Eye
01-09-2007 12:13 PM


Re: Gay "marriage" & gay genes
I'm not so sure about that, but honestly, I've never tried.
*shrugs*
Give it a whirl, then get back to us.
I think you might be able to be forced into it. Or at least forced into it not being so bad, and then gradually learn to like it, but is that really being gay, I dunno.
Yeah, people love getting raped.
Also, if you get raped by a dude? You catch the gay.
I had a friend that started hanging out with a new crowd, and then started saying they were gay and then when they stopped hanging out with those people all of the sudden they were straight again. I guess they weren't really gay, but they were really gay, if you know what I mean.
They could be bi. They could be gay. They could be straight.
See, that's the thing... I'm not in your friend's head. It would be astonishingly fucking presumptuous of me to try and say that I know what his sexuality really is, and whether or not it was a choice for him.
All in all, I don't think you can say that someone can't choose to be gay.
Don't recall doing so. In fact, I already pointed out that I can't say what every single person on the planet is or is not capable of doing. But when it comes down to it, there are demonstrably people on this planet who are not capable of choosing their sexuality.
So trying to say that homosexuality is a choice is asinine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-09-2007 12:13 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 01-09-2007 12:47 PM Dan Carroll has replied
 Message 114 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-09-2007 12:51 PM Dan Carroll has replied

Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5500 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 110 of 306 (375651)
01-09-2007 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Taz
01-09-2007 3:32 AM


Re: Gay "marriage" & gay genes
Jaderis writes:
It ["marriage"] is just a word, after all.
Tasmanian Devil replies:
I'm afraid that the issue is more complicated than that.
Indeed!
I think it is germane to mention here that I am in love with my sailboat Pearl. Yes, I know she’s made of fiberglass, but she’s beautiful nevertheless. Sexy too! When I’m inside her I feel like I’m back in the womb. We have been going together now for about 10 years, so we think it is time to get married. But when I applied for a marriage license at the county courthouse they said that the law didn’t have provisions enabling me to marry Pearl. How absolutely devastating! How can they refuse to grant a sailor his right to marry whomever he loves? Pearl and I feel very abused. (We could not have children, of course, but there is a dinghy involved from a previous relationship with another sailboat.)
”Hoot Mon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Taz, posted 01-09-2007 3:32 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Taz, posted 01-09-2007 12:38 PM Fosdick has not replied
 Message 133 by crashfrog, posted 01-09-2007 4:37 PM Fosdick has not replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 111 of 306 (375653)
01-09-2007 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Fosdick
01-09-2007 12:33 PM


Re: Gay "marriage" & gay genes
Yes, and I'm sure your precious Pearl could sign a marriage contract.

AKA G.A.S.B.Y.
George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Fosdick, posted 01-09-2007 12:33 PM Fosdick has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Dan Carroll, posted 01-09-2007 12:43 PM Taz has not replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 112 of 306 (375656)
01-09-2007 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Taz
01-09-2007 12:38 PM


Re: Gay "marriage" & gay genes
Yeah, Crash already went over that with him.
But... y'know. He waited a couple days, and then repeated himself. So it's a real smart idea now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Taz, posted 01-09-2007 12:38 PM Taz has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 113 of 306 (375658)
01-09-2007 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Dan Carroll
01-09-2007 12:28 PM


Re: Gay "marriage" & gay genes
[QS=CatholicScientist[]All in all, I don't think you can say that someone can't choose to be gay.[/QS]
Dan writes:
Don't recall doing so. In fact, I already pointed out that I can't say what every single person on the planet is or is not capable of doing. But when it comes down to it, there are demonstrably people on this planet who are not capable of choosing their sexuality.
So trying to say that homosexuality is a choice is asinine.
  • Gender is not a choice, (unless one wants to undergo great expense to have a sex change)
  • Attraction is not a choice, although in many cases it is reinforced with learned behavior.
  • Behavior is most definitely a choice. Not to say that there is a correct way to behave, however.
  • choice is a human right.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 109 by Dan Carroll, posted 01-09-2007 12:28 PM Dan Carroll has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 115 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-09-2007 12:54 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 116 by Dan Carroll, posted 01-09-2007 12:56 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 117 by Taz, posted 01-09-2007 1:00 PM Phat has not replied

    New Cat's Eye
    Inactive Member


    Message 114 of 306 (375662)
    01-09-2007 12:51 PM
    Reply to: Message 109 by Dan Carroll
    01-09-2007 12:28 PM


    Re: Gay "marriage" & gay genes
    I think you might be able to be forced into it. Or at least forced into it not being so bad, and then gradually learn to like it, but is that really being gay, I dunno.
    Yeah, people love getting raped.
    Also, if you get raped by a dude? You catch the gay.
    My point was that sexual preference might not be as immutable as you seem to be suggesting.
    I had a friend that started hanging out with a new crowd, and then started saying they were gay and then when they stopped hanging out with those people all of the sudden they were straight again. I guess they weren't really gay, but they were really gay, if you know what I mean.
    They could be bi. They could be gay. They could be straight.
    See, that's the thing... I'm not in your friend's head. It would be astonishingly fucking presumptuous of me to try and say that I know what his sexuality really is, and whether or not it was a choice for him.
    O rly?
    All in all, I don't think you can say that someone can't choose to be gay.
    Don't recall doing so.
    quote:
    Dan writes:
    Hoot Mon writes:
    I'm pretty sure blacks are black by nature, and not by choice. I don't know yet if the same thing is true about gays.
    You know, as always, there's a really easy way to test whether or not this is the case.
    1) Go to the m4m section of your local craigslist. (Or w4w, if you are female.) Post an ad looking for NSA sex.
    2) Meet up with the most attractive person who responds. Perform oral sex on them.
    3) While doing so, choose to be aroused by the experience.
    4) Come back here, and tell us how incredibly easy it was to choose to be gay.
    Dan writes:
    Hoot Mon writes:
    Sorry. Not going there.
    Why not?
    If one can choose to be gay, you'll love it, no matter what your feelings on the subject are right now.

    While it isn't explicit, it certainly looks like you are claiming that people are unable to choose to be gay.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 109 by Dan Carroll, posted 01-09-2007 12:28 PM Dan Carroll has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 118 by Dan Carroll, posted 01-09-2007 1:05 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
     Message 119 by Taz, posted 01-09-2007 1:09 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

    New Cat's Eye
    Inactive Member


    Message 115 of 306 (375664)
    01-09-2007 12:54 PM
    Reply to: Message 113 by Phat
    01-09-2007 12:47 PM


    Re: Gay "marriage" & gay genes
  • Attraction is not a choice, although in many cases it is reinforced with learned behavior.
  • How are you so sure about that?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 113 by Phat, posted 01-09-2007 12:47 PM Phat has not replied

    Dan Carroll
    Inactive Member


    Message 116 of 306 (375665)
    01-09-2007 12:56 PM
    Reply to: Message 113 by Phat
    01-09-2007 12:47 PM


    Re: Gay "marriage" & gay genes
    Agreed all around. Only one thing prompts me to respond...
    Behavior is most definitely a choice.
    True. However, I think behavior is kind of irrelevant when it comes to this topic. Someone doesn't stop being gay, even if they never have sex. Just as a celibate straight person doesn't stop being straight.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 113 by Phat, posted 01-09-2007 12:47 PM Phat has not replied

    Taz
    Member (Idle past 3291 days)
    Posts: 5069
    From: Zerus
    Joined: 07-18-2006


    Message 117 of 306 (375669)
    01-09-2007 1:00 PM
    Reply to: Message 113 by Phat
    01-09-2007 12:47 PM


    Re: Gay "marriage" & gay genes
    Some nitpics:
    Gender, by definition, is a social construct regarding culture-bound conventions, roles and behaviors for, as well as relationships between and among individuals within that society. Some would argue that specific types of gender, such as masculine and feminine, are usually socially assigned to specific sex of the individuals portraying such genders, they are not necessarily bound to the assigned sex. In other words, gender sometimes is a choice people make.
    Attraction CAN be a choice. In societies where arranged marriages were rampant and are still in practice, it should be noted that these people literally "chose" to like each other and grew intimate with one another.

    AKA G.A.S.B.Y.
    George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 113 by Phat, posted 01-09-2007 12:47 PM Phat has not replied

    Dan Carroll
    Inactive Member


    Message 118 of 306 (375671)
    01-09-2007 1:05 PM
    Reply to: Message 114 by New Cat's Eye
    01-09-2007 12:51 PM


    Re: Gay "marriage" & gay genes
    My point was that sexual preference might not be as immutable as you seem to be suggesting.
    However, your point assumes that rape is fun.
    Problem is, I read this study a while back... it alleged that maybe 10% or so of rape victims actually don't like it. Sounded weird to me, but hey. Can't argue with science.
    O rly?
    [stupid internet catch-phrase in response]
    While it isn't explicit, it certainly looks like you are claiming that people are unable to choose to be gay.
    No... I am claiming that there are people who are unable to choose their sexuality. And that if this is the case, then trying to say that homosexuality is a choice is stupid.
    I'm pretty sure I've said that, like, fifteen or sixteen billion times at this point.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 114 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-09-2007 12:51 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 121 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-09-2007 1:45 PM Dan Carroll has replied

    Taz
    Member (Idle past 3291 days)
    Posts: 5069
    From: Zerus
    Joined: 07-18-2006


    Message 119 of 306 (375672)
    01-09-2007 1:09 PM
    Reply to: Message 114 by New Cat's Eye
    01-09-2007 12:51 PM


    Re: Gay "marriage" & gay genes
    CS writes:
    My point was that sexual preference might not be as immutable as you seem to be suggesting.
    For some of us, IT IS as immutable as he seemed to have suggested.
    Look, not every straight guy have tried to stay away from gay behaviors like you. I will go ahead and confess it right here. I tried all the gay stuff many times in college. While I can't say how you would react to the same experiences (I can't read people's minds damn it), I can say with absolute certainty that the experiences back then didn't turn me gay and it sure as hell won't change me gay anytime soon.
    For those of us that are completely secured with our sexuality, we are not as caught up with the whole sanctity of marriage thing. Sure, I'm happy to be married. If my gay friends start marrying each other, I really don't see how that is going to affect MY marriage or MY sexuality.
    Added by edit.
    If gay experiences didn't turn me gay, what makes you think something is going to change certain gay people?
    Edited by Tazmanian Devil, : No reason given.

    AKA G.A.S.B.Y.
    George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 114 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-09-2007 12:51 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 122 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-09-2007 1:52 PM Taz has not replied

    Fosdick 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 5500 days)
    Posts: 1793
    From: Upper Slobovia
    Joined: 12-11-2006


    Message 120 of 306 (375676)
    01-09-2007 1:37 PM
    Reply to: Message 101 by crashfrog
    01-08-2007 8:08 PM


    Re: Gay "marriage" & gay genes
    crashfrog, re:
    The Hells Angels say their rights are abused if they can't have fist fights in the parking lot.
    Really? You have, perhaps, an example of that?
    I certainly did get that impression from reading Sonny Barger's "Hell's Angel."
    ”Hoot Mon

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 101 by crashfrog, posted 01-08-2007 8:08 PM crashfrog has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 132 by crashfrog, posted 01-09-2007 4:33 PM Fosdick has not replied

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