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Author Topic:   XXXX Science
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 11 of 96 (376733)
01-13-2007 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Straggler
01-13-2007 12:56 PM


Re: Atheist Science - What is it???
"Atheist Science" would be science based on the absolute conviction that there is no god.
The only thing this does is force the person to use only natural explanations and evidence without any blinders on that issue, but it doesn't change the evidence. It is possible that this might limit some avenues of research, but I am not sure how that would happen.
Creationists frequently argue that this is what evolution etc IS because they "take god out of the equation" etc.
What science in general is would - should - be classified as is "Agnostic Science" - let's wait and see what the evidence says eh?
I think what you want to ask about is: can there be a supernatural science?
...
I'm still waiting to see what "Porn Science" is about ... (XXXX?)

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Straggler, posted 01-13-2007 12:56 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Straggler, posted 01-13-2007 1:56 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 16 of 96 (376753)
01-13-2007 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Straggler
01-13-2007 1:56 PM


Re: Atheist Science - What is it???
So is the existence of a creator/designer a valid scientific conclusion then??
You got from "absolute conviction" to conclusion? Absolute conviction is faith, whether it is that a god exists or that a god does not exist.
The only problem I can see with "Atheist Science" being driven by this {conviction\faith} is that a pre-conviction of no supernatural activity would not significantly affect the study of non-supernatural activity.
It's only when you introduce the criteria that we must also consider supernatural activity that you run into problems with atheism --- AND science.
The problem here is that you have moved from science to {philosophy\religion} and the standards are different.
Philosophically I think that it is important that science not rule out anything before hand -- thus it must be agnostic or it is not science, and "agnostic science" should be (and is, imh(ysa)o) redundant.
Let me know if you find any.
Hey, you posted all those X's

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Straggler, posted 01-13-2007 1:56 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 41 of 96 (377327)
01-16-2007 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Hyroglyphx
01-15-2007 11:12 PM


voodoo science
What is 'Christian science'?
Christian science literally has nothing to do with science. Its purely spiritual.
quote:
Christian Science does not rely on conventional medicine but holds that the ills of the flesh, including death itself, can be healed through prayer and faith in God.
It rejects science in favor of non-science. You can call that "spiritual" or you can call it foolish, either way it is NOT science.
Is there such a thing as 'atheist science'?
Yes. Its referred to as "Secular Science." In fact, the word "secular" literally means study or belief of anything of only natural order.
Moving the goal posts again nem?
Thesaurus search for secular:
Main Entry: secularPart of Speech: adjective
Definition: material
Synonyms: civil, earthly, laic, laical, lay, material, materialistic, nonclerical, nonreligious, profane, state, temporal, unsacred, worldly
Antonyms: holy, religious, spiritual
Notes: sectarian means of or relating to or characteristic of a sect or sects, while secular means not specifically relating to religion or to a religious body or not religious or spiritual in nature

Putting in atheist brings up two entries, with "skeptic" used here:
Main Entry: skepticPart of Speech: noun
Definition: unbeliever
Synonyms: agnostic, apostate, atheist, cynic, disbeliever, dissenter, doubter, doubting Thomas*, freethinker, heathen, heretic, infidel, materialist, misanthrope, misbeliever, nihilist, pagan, pessimist, profaner, questioner, rationalist, scoffer
Antonyms: believer
Notes: cynics doubt because they question motives (Cynic was first a school of philosophy expressing contempt for wealth and pleasure; the word cynic comes from Greek cyniko 'doglike'); skeptics doubt reports of what they hear or read
The point being that "atheist" and "secular" are so different in meaning that they are NOT synonyms -- as you attempted to use them
OR you are moving the goal posts from one to the other.
sci·ence -noun1. a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
2. systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.
3. any of the branches of natural or physical science.
4. systematized knowledge in general.
5. knowledge, as of facts or principles; knowledge gained by systematic study.
6. a particular branch of knowledge.
7. skill, esp. reflecting a precise application of facts or principles; proficiency.
sec·u·lar -adjective1. of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests.
2. not pertaining to or connected with religion (opposed to sacred): secular music.
3. (of education, a school, etc.) concerned with nonreligious subjects.
4. (of members of the clergy) not belonging to a religious order; not bound by monastic vows (opposed to regular).
5. occurring or celebrated once in an age or century: the secular games of Rome.
6. going on from age to age; continuing through long ages.
-noun
7. a layperson.
8. one of the secular clergy.

That last one is interesting ... an atheist clergy? By your usage anyway eh? OR your usage is just flat wrong. Again.
Curious, I DON'T see "study or belief of anything of only natural order" in SECULAR but I DO see it in SCIENCE.
Secular is part of the skeptic approach of science but it is not the all inclusive term - there are elements that science is skeptical of that are not religious: ufo's come to mind.
No webpage found at provided URL: skep·tic -noun1. a person who questions the validity or authenticity of something purporting to be factual.
2. a person who maintains a doubting attitude, as toward values, plans, statements, or the character of others.
3. a person who doubts the truth of a religion, esp. Christianity, or of important elements of it.
4. (initial capital letter) Philosophy.
a. a member of a philosophical school of ancient Greece, the earliest group of which consisted of Pyrrho and his followers, who maintained that real knowledge of things is impossible.
b. any later thinker who doubts or questions the possibility of real knowledge of any kind.
Amd "skeptic science" IS science.
If anything, "skeptic" protects you from voodoo science - whatever "voodoo" is involved eh?
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : added skeptic & voodoo science
Edited by RAZD, : subtitle

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Hyroglyphx, posted 01-15-2007 11:12 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Fosdick, posted 01-16-2007 1:02 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 51 of 96 (377440)
01-16-2007 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Fosdick
01-16-2007 1:02 PM


Re: voodoo science
I find it interesting that the term "atheist" is invoked much more often by true believers
Especially when what they usually mean is not-my-theism, as they don't seem to distinguish between non-believers in {A} and non-believers in {ALL}.
As for me, I am an "untheist":
A friend of mine uses "apatheist" -- just doesn't care. I think if you did a poll on the numbers of americans that would agree with that statement that the numbers would suprise the theists.
Of course "apatheist science" would likely be rather ... pathetic eh? (just to touch base with the topic)
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : topic

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Fosdick, posted 01-16-2007 1:02 PM Fosdick has not replied

  
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