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Author Topic:   King David found guilty on all counts.
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 68 of 174 (377181)
01-15-2007 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Brian
01-15-2007 6:28 AM


Brian writes:
But you know their answer as well as they do, it is the admitting it that they have the problem with.
Am I the only one here who thinks if christians like these are as righteous as they make themselves out to be everytime they protest against the rest of us sinners, then the least they could do is admit something as simple as what I have pointed out?
May be I am just a bad person, but I am getting tired of seeing the following pattern over and over: (1) Make excuses for atrocities, (2) avoid the question, (3) if asked again avoid it again, (4) play dumb and say they don't know what you're talking about hoping you'd let it go or that you don't know which verse to specifically talk about, (5) be dense and say they don't understand what you are talking about, (6) and finally when all else failed just ignore you overall.
If I'm wrong, just point it out to me. I'm not going to learn anything if they don't correct me.

AKA G.A.S.B.Y.
George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Brian, posted 01-15-2007 6:28 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Brian, posted 01-15-2007 1:12 PM Taz has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 70 of 174 (377214)
01-15-2007 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Brian
01-15-2007 1:12 PM


But the people I'm engaging here aren't like Faith and scottness. These two actually have a reputation of being decent. If it was scottness or Faith or the guy from Ireland (Faith's brother... can't remember his name), I wouldn't have asked the question at all.
The lurkers know who the good and the bad guys are, they know who is honest and who isn't and if I do get involved in a prolonged discussion with a fundy it is for the lurkers and not the fundy that I keep dialogue going.
This is putting too much faith in the lurkers, don't you think?
I have a story about this actually.
A few months ago, I went to somewhat of a family reunion. During dinner, somehow the topic of china and communism came up. I pointed out that the Chinese will be selling Chinese made cars in America pretty soon and that in a couple years we could be seeing the "Cheetah" (sp?) on our roads. In return, Toy R Us will be selling their products in China. My father said that because China is a communist country everybody in there is poor so they can't afford to buy toys. I pointed out that while politically China is still a totalitarian state, they have adopted many economic policies from the west. Cities like Shanghai and HongKong are major economic centers.
I went ahead and said that the communist party in China nowadays have gotten smarter since the cultural revolution and Mao's economic 5 year plan that starved a hundred or so million Chinese. Nowadays, they allow some leeway so their people are at least not starving and are now using cars rather than bikes.
I may be wrong on some of these points (I'm not that much into politics!). Anyway, this made my father mad and he started to yell (it's a tradition for my father to yell over nothing). He began to point out all the bad things Mao did and how he singlehandedly killed more people than anyone else in history. My father pointed out that communism seeks to make everyone poor. He went for a little while with that. At the end, he pointed out that it is rediculous for me to suggest that everybody in China is rich.
In other words, my father blatently used a strawman against me. After he said that last thing, the rest of the family agreed that indeed it was rediculous for me to suggest that everyone in China is a millionaire.
The point is lurkers (or listeners) tend to lean toward the side that makes the most incredible, most impressive, and loudest claims. This is virtually true of all the real live creation vs. evolution debates I have been to. I have seen biologists, astro-physicists, and professors get ripped apart by the most ignorant people I've seen just because they know how to connect with the crowd more.
I've lost much faith in the lurkers and listeners. There is an old saying: Sunshine is the most effective disinfectant. We have to make it known to people that the other side of the debate is full of it, and we do that by making it obvious.
At this point, I'm willing to bet that half the lurkers out there think I am just an ass picking on Riverrat and Phat and that their silence means that they are too wise to talk to me who have no wisdom.

AKA G.A.S.B.Y.
George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Brian, posted 01-15-2007 1:12 PM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by joshua221, posted 01-15-2007 10:16 PM Taz has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 79 of 174 (377368)
01-16-2007 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by riVeRraT
01-16-2007 10:11 AM


Re: model of morality?
Here you are.
David committed a crime. To punish David, god made david's son rebel and caused twenty some thousand people to die. God also made david's son rape david's wives. Is this assessment correct?

AKA G.A.S.B.Y.
George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by riVeRraT, posted 01-16-2007 10:11 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by riVeRraT, posted 01-17-2007 9:10 AM Taz has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 90 of 174 (377543)
01-17-2007 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by riVeRraT
01-17-2007 9:10 AM


Re: model of morality?
riverrat writes:
mis-representing how the story goes.
I honestly don't see how I misrepresented it. God chose David as king. David screwed up. God punished a lot of people for it.
David commited more than a crime. David was able to hear the voice of God, and was in direct relations with God. David betrayed God, the creator of the universe, and pissed God off.
So, if I piss my father off, I guess he has the right to beat my brother, his children, his wife, my wife, and my cousins?
We are God's creation, and God can choose to do with us what He pleases.
For now, I am not arguing with you on this point at all, if you've noticed. All I have been doing is asking a simple question, and all you have been doing is being overly defensive.
The question is quite simple. Did god punish a lot of people for david's crime, or betrayal, whatever you want to call it?
This isn't an issue of god punished who and who. This is an issue of where the punishmentment, or mishaps, came from. You and phat have been claiming all along that all the miseries and all the deaths were purely man's doing and that god was suppose to be all good and all of that. Now, you've changed your story and said god could do to people whatever she wanted.
So, which is it? Did god punish these people for david's doing or did all that crap just happen out of people's own doing?
riverrat writes:
If you notice, after Jesus came, God no longer did things like this to us, we only do it to ourselves.
That's not you and others have been saying. You and others have been saying all along that all the mishaps both old and new were of man's doing. Now, it seems, you have changed your story.
Again, I asked a simple question. I didn't misrepresent it at all. But if you wish, I will add another sentence to it.
David committed a crime and betrayed god. God could do whatever the hell she wishes. God punished a people by causing deaths of 20 some thousand people and made david's son rape david's wives. Is this accurate?
Are you denying that people in authority, cannot be responsible for killing many, by their actions?
This is the crux of the matter, actually. David didn't kill these people. I'm not a christian, so that's why I'm asking you. The bible seems to say that god killed these people. Did god kill these people?
***************************************************************
On a side note, you said earlier that you are not one of the people that advocate we should follow the morality of the ancients.
If I were to betray my father and he has the right to beat, or kill, my children, my brother, my brother's wife, my brother's kids, my wife, my cousins, and everyone else related to me, that is morality of savages. It is the idea that the leader of the house/country could do whatever the hell he pleases. It is savage moral.
I'm sorry, riverrat, but you are showing more and more to me that perhaps you are better off living in ancient times because you agree so much with what they did back then.

AKA G.A.S.B.Y.
George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by riVeRraT, posted 01-17-2007 9:10 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by riVeRraT, posted 01-18-2007 9:20 AM Taz has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 91 of 174 (377546)
01-17-2007 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Brian
01-17-2007 10:02 AM


Re: Let Those Without Sin Cast the First Stone
Brian writes:
Well you have been proven wrong there mate.
He probably openned up a chinese fortune cookie and the message inside was something like "morality do not change" or something like that.

AKA G.A.S.B.Y.
George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Brian, posted 01-17-2007 10:02 AM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by joshua221, posted 01-17-2007 3:38 PM Taz has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 95 of 174 (377623)
01-17-2007 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by joshua221
01-17-2007 3:38 PM


Re: Let Those Without Sin Cast the First Stone
I said
quote:
He probably openned up a chinese fortune cookie and the message inside was something like "morality do not change" or something like that.
In which you replied
quote:
Then Brian and Tazmanian Devil resorted to using insults...
Are you racist against Chinese people? What do you have against chinese fortune cookies? Chinese people are people, you know. Shouldn't be racist like that.
See? I can be just as childish, if not more. Don't think your attitude is special.
For the rest, has ultra always been like this? I know I should be ignoring him, but it's like trying to ignore a train wreck... just can't look away.

AKA G.A.S.B.Y.
George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by joshua221, posted 01-17-2007 3:38 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 104 of 174 (377800)
01-18-2007 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by riVeRraT
01-18-2007 9:20 AM


Re: model of morality?
RR writes:
Me writes:
The question is quite simple. Did god punish a lot of people for david's crime, or betrayal, whatever you want to call it?
God allowed it to happen.
Good god, riverrat. For the fucking last time, here is the exact text from the freaking bible.
2 Samuel 12:11
quote:
"This is what the LORD says: 'Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity upon you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. 12 You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.' "
Isn't there some kind of forum rule against continuing dodging and lying?
Added by edit.
PS Is there some kind of mental block that's preventing you from reading the bible? Or is this one of those lying for jesus?
Anyway, this will be my last post to you in this thread. If you want to keep lying, you can go ahead. I'm done.
Fucking sakes, and they ask me why I think christians are liars.
Edited by Tazmanian Devil, : No reason given.

AKA G.A.S.B.Y.
George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by riVeRraT, posted 01-18-2007 9:20 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by riVeRraT, posted 01-18-2007 11:42 PM Taz has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 111 of 174 (377926)
01-19-2007 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by riVeRraT
01-18-2007 11:42 PM


Re: model of morality?
More lies from you. That's not what you said before. You said god allowed 20 thousand people to die. The passage clearly stated that god MADE 20 thousand people to die.
I don't get this. You think you can go to heaven by lying for jesus?

AKA G.A.S.B.Y.
George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by riVeRraT, posted 01-18-2007 11:42 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by riVeRraT, posted 01-19-2007 4:14 PM Taz has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 116 of 174 (378136)
01-19-2007 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by riVeRraT
01-19-2007 4:14 PM


Re: model of morality?
riverrat writes:
guess the bible says He did both, made them die, although you still haven't provided the verse cantaining the word 20,000. And He allowed it to happen.
I don't think there is any doubt today that Hitler was responsible for the holocaust. Yet, you won't find a single document that said hitler killed those people.
I am accusing you of lying because you are being intellectually dishonest by playing dumb and being dense. Again, here is the passage I have been trying to get through your thick skull.
2 Samuel 12:11
quote:
"This is what the LORD says: 'Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity upon you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. 12 You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.' "
Hitler called it the Final Solution. We call it the Holocaust.
God said he was going to cause great "calamity". The civil war, which god admitted to have caused, killed 20 thousand people.
But wait, there's more. Your playing dumb won't at all admit that god himself admit to making David's son rape David's wives.
You are lying because you are playing dumb and being dense. Essentially, this is like trying to argue hitler didn't kill 6 million jews because hitler never said "I will kill 6 million jews." All hitler said was referring it as the final solution.
You are either intellectually incapable of thinking beyond the 4th grade level or you are just playing dumb hoping to get a ticket into heaven.
But for the benefit of the doubt, please use the passage I am referring to and tell us how you interpret that. Tell us how that is not god's confession that he caused the death of 20 thousand people and the rape of david's wives? Please, tell us how god had nothing to do with it.
Edited by Tazmanian Devil, : Blew up and underlined "I am" just in case it's too small for riverrat to see.
Edited by Tazmanian Devil, : No reason given.

AKA G.A.S.B.Y.
George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by riVeRraT, posted 01-19-2007 4:14 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by riVeRraT, posted 01-24-2007 5:46 AM Taz has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 129 of 174 (379481)
01-24-2007 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by riVeRraT
01-24-2007 5:46 AM


Re: model of morality?
Ok rat, you win. Forget the 20 thousand people who died.
Do you agree or not agree that god made david's son rape david's wives as an act of punishment upon david? The verse in question I have cited many times with pretty colors and bigger fonts.
Added by edit.
By the way, you win meaning your lies finally won. I'm not going to waste anymore time with you or your lies. You keep asking why people like me have a negative toward christians. You are the reason why. The commentary you posted has almost nothing to do with the verse I used to question you. But who cares, right? As long as you persist enough with a lie, it becomes real, even to you.
Rat, you may think you are doing good by playing dumb for god and posting nonsensical commentaries to excuse his acts, but you are doing yourself a great disservice. I have posted the verse in question many times with pretty colors to outline the words in question. Yet, you've lied over and over claiming I need to provide the verse.
I know it is against forum rule to call someone a liar, and I agree. But there is no other way to put this. You intentionally "lie" over and over about this. You then posted a commentary that has almost nothing to do with the verse. And then you again claim that I haven't provided the verse.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to my suspension.
Have a good life, riverrat. May you be able to get to heaven.
Edited by Tazmanian Devil, : No reason given.

AKA G.A.S.B.Y.
George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by riVeRraT, posted 01-24-2007 5:46 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by riVeRraT, posted 01-24-2007 12:54 PM Taz has not replied

  
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