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Author Topic:   Hovind busted, finally
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 226 of 308 (378130)
01-19-2007 5:11 PM


10 years +
Well, I'd bet he didn't get any points from the judge for acceptance of responsibility. From the article:
Prior to his sentencing, a tearful Kent Hovind, also known as "Dr. Dino" asked for the court’s leniency.
“If it’s just money the IRS wants, there are thousands of people out there who will help pay the money they want so I can go back out there and preach,” Hovind said.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 227 of 308 (378138)
01-19-2007 5:51 PM


Ten years for fraud.
There's not a man among us who'll say he didn't deserve it.
He lied, he lied, he lied, he lied, he lied, and he is PWNED!!!

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 228 of 308 (378157)
01-19-2007 7:04 PM


10 years?
No parole?
Wow!
Okay, someone needs to fill us in on what his options are for appeals, both for the sentence and the guilty verdict.
But what a strange end for Dr. Dino. He could have gone on merrily doing what obviously makes him very happy, preaching the gospel of the Lord, giving lectures on creationism, and debating evolutionists, but he somehow became enamored of tax evasion schemes based on religious claims. The greater good of his ministry and his family were sacrificed to his own arrogance that whatever he thought was so *was* actually so. No evolutionist had ever bested him in debate, a tax court would be mere putty in his hands!
Whether or not Hovind is a liar and cheat or actually believes everything he says, there's something profoundly pathetic about those who bring disaster upon themselves through their faith in the rightness of their cause and their own infallibility, especially when there has been more than ample evidence to question that faith. This isn't the first time Hovind's lost in tax court, but evidently the prior case from the 1990's had barely ended before Hovind resumed his tax evasion activities. Hovind fell victim to his own well-established powers of persuasion, convincing himself that because he did the Lord's work that that placed him above the law.
I wonder if this will truly be the end of Dr. Dino, or if the website and his books and videos will live on. Perhaps he'll write and maintain his website and make new videos from jail. It'll be difficult because I think a great deal of his income derives in indirect fashion from his popularity, and a great deal of his popularity stems from his public appearances, and the inability to appear in public could make it impossible for him to continue his creationist ministry. We'll have to wait and see.
In a way it's sad to see this clown of creationism removed as an adversary in this way. It would have been much more satisfying to see his creationist machinations be his downfall, but I can't imagine a way in which that could have ever been possible. But we can at least be thankful, indeed very thankful, that one very significant source of creationist misinformation about science could very likely disappear completely from the stage.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by subbie, posted 01-19-2007 7:35 PM Percy has not replied

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 229 of 308 (378160)
01-19-2007 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Dr Adequate
01-19-2007 5:51 PM


Kent stood up to the god of this world that requires all to tithe to the IRS. The Federal Reserve System is the god of this world forcing America to allow foreign bankers to make our money out of nothing.
The whole reason we have an 8 trillion dollar debt is only based on money being made out of nothing. This in itself would not be a problem the problem is our money is being made out of nothing by bankers that are not americans. Then they reloan this money back to America with interest and they never pay any income tax.
You need to ask the question would we have a national debt if it was not for these foreign bankers? Who are these foreign bankers? Does anyone know? Kennedy wanted to do away with them loaning money to America, he was killed. We have a war with Iraq are these foreign bankers loaning money to America to be paid back with interest?
If your against fraud don't look at Kent look at the Federal Reserve its the biggest scam on the planet.
Kent simply stood up for what is right, he stood in the gap, for truth.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-19-2007 5:51 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by dwise1, posted 01-19-2007 7:17 PM johnfolton has replied
 Message 231 by Percy, posted 01-19-2007 7:29 PM johnfolton has not replied
 Message 266 by nator, posted 01-23-2007 10:48 PM johnfolton has not replied

dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 230 of 308 (378162)
01-19-2007 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by johnfolton
01-19-2007 7:09 PM


Well, didn't Jesus teach to pay your taxes? "Render unto Caesar ... ".
The IRS is not a god; it's part of government. AKA "Caesar".
And with all due respect, the thought of Hovind standing up for truth seems rather novel.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by johnfolton, posted 01-19-2007 7:09 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 231 of 308 (378167)
01-19-2007 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by johnfolton
01-19-2007 7:09 PM


Charley writes:
Kent simply stood up for what is right, he stood in the gap, for truth.
Hey, soldier, there's a gap in the line, go fill it!
Seriously, you do realize that our national debt is really caused by a Druid cabal that dates back to antiquity. Kennedy was in their pocket (Cuban missle crisis and all that), and it was the rival Wicca underground that paid Oswald to assasinate Kennedy. I can't believe you don't know this stuff...
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by kuresu, posted 01-19-2007 7:34 PM Percy has not replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 232 of 308 (378169)
01-19-2007 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by Percy
01-19-2007 7:29 PM


so much for the conpsiracy that LBJ and the mafia were behind it. now it all makes sense--with the wiccan powers behind the bullet, Oswald would have problem overcoming the physical impossiblities of his supposed shot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by Percy, posted 01-19-2007 7:29 PM Percy has not replied

subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 233 of 308 (378171)
01-19-2007 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by Percy
01-19-2007 7:04 PM


10 years, no parole. However, the "no parole" part might be just a tad misleading.
He is entitled to a reduction of 54 days from his sentence for each year of "good time" that he does: in other words, keeping his nose clean while in the joint. I suspect it's quite likely he will do that. This amounts to about a 15% credit for each year. The big difference between this and parole is that it's not early release with supervision. His jail time will be done.
I'm somewhat puzzled because the article says he's getting 10 plus 2 years parole. I suspect that it's actually probation, not parole. The purpose of the probation is to keep him under court supervision for a time after his release so that if he immediately starts to get into trouble again, they can yank his chain a bit.
His options on appeal, very broadly speaking, are two: proving that the judge made some error of law that prejudiced him in some way, or that the evidence was insufficient to support the verdict or sentence.
There's far too little information available, as far as I can find, to even guess at the likelihood of a successful challenge on appeal. About all I can do is mention that virtually all criminal cases are affirmed on appeal.
Of course, there's always clemancy. He could ask Bush, or any subsequent president, for a pardon or communtation. But, just a gut feeling, I'd say he's more likely to prevail on appeal with one of the arguments that Charley's advancing in this thread than to get clemancy.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Percy, posted 01-19-2007 7:04 PM Percy has not replied

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 234 of 308 (378175)
01-19-2007 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by dwise1
01-19-2007 7:17 PM


The Federal Reserve is not a god; it's part of government. AKA "Caesar".
The Federal Reserve is not part of the government its only foreign bankers hence not Caesar. They simply print our money out of nothing and then reloan this with interest and never pay any income tax. The IRS is not God but is the god of this world forcing Americans to pay interest on nothing, etc...
Jesus was extremely angry if memory serves me correct to the chasing the money changers out of the temple. The Federal Reserve System is not Caesar but only money changers emptying America by the creation of nothing and charging interest on nothing.
Presidents Lincoln and Kennedy were murdered when they stood up against the god of this world charging interest on nothing.
And with all due respect, the thought of Hovind standing up for truth seems rather novel.
I agree.
Edited by Charley, : Changed IRS to Federal Reserve in response to CK pointing out our battle is the Federal Reserve how the god of this world is using the IRS in the emptying of America of its wealth.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by CK, posted 01-19-2007 7:45 PM johnfolton has not replied
 Message 236 by Coragyps, posted 01-19-2007 8:08 PM johnfolton has not replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 235 of 308 (378178)
01-19-2007 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by johnfolton
01-19-2007 7:42 PM


The IRS is not part of the government
quote:
The IRS is a bureau of the Department of the Treasury and one of the world's most efficient tax administrators
So it and the Department of the Treasury are not part of the government?
http://www.irs.gov/irs/article/0,,id=98141,00.html
Please explain further - are you maybe confusing the IRS with the Federal reserve (which lots of whackos make the claims you have about the IRS)?
Edited by CK, : No reason given.
Edited by CK, : typos

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by johnfolton, posted 01-19-2007 7:42 PM johnfolton has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 236 of 308 (378188)
01-19-2007 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by johnfolton
01-19-2007 7:42 PM


Presidents Lincoln and Kennedy were murdered when they stood up against the god of this world
They had the Fed and the IRS in 1865? You learn something every day around here!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by johnfolton, posted 01-19-2007 7:42 PM johnfolton has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by kuresu, posted 01-19-2007 8:13 PM Coragyps has not replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 237 of 308 (378189)
01-19-2007 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by Coragyps
01-19-2007 8:08 PM


Funnily enough, Andrew Jackson destroyed the first version of the Federal Reserve. he survived his presidency.
Charley probably doesn't realize Lincoln was shot by Booth, a states' right advocate sour that the south lost the civil war. state's rights folk tend to not want to increase federal power, which the federal reserve does.

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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by Jaderis, posted 01-19-2007 8:22 PM kuresu has not replied

Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3425 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 238 of 308 (378191)
01-19-2007 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by kuresu
01-19-2007 8:13 PM


Charley probably doesn't realize Lincoln was shot by Booth, a states' right advocate sour that the south lost the civil war.
Um...the civil war wasn't quite over when Lincoln was shot. Not for two more years in fact.
Doesn't destroy your point, of course. Just thought I'd mention it.
{ABE: Please ignore this. I am an idiot }
Edited by Jaderis, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by jar, posted 01-19-2007 8:30 PM Jaderis has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 239 of 308 (378198)
01-19-2007 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by Jaderis
01-19-2007 8:22 PM


Well ...
Uh
April 10,1865 Lee surrenders.
April 14, 1865 Lincoln shot.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Jaderis, posted 01-19-2007 8:22 PM Jaderis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Jaderis, posted 01-19-2007 8:37 PM jar has replied

Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3425 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 240 of 308 (378202)
01-19-2007 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by jar
01-19-2007 8:30 PM


Re: Well ...
Crap. I don't know what I was thinking.
I feel like an idiot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by jar, posted 01-19-2007 8:30 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by Percy, posted 01-19-2007 8:52 PM Jaderis has replied
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