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Author Topic:   egotheistic pantheism revealed...
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 199 of 308 (377293)
01-15-2007 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by Modulous
01-15-2007 10:00 PM


Re: Pantheist here
delete
Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Modulous, posted 01-15-2007 10:00 PM Modulous has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 209 of 308 (377322)
01-16-2007 7:31 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by Phat
01-16-2007 5:13 AM


Re: a word in your ear, gunslinger
I've just been busy. I think the conversation between Mod and myself showed the reasonable side of reasonable parties.
If anyone has a problem with the edited post #1, then have at it.
My apologies for misattributing those qualitites to pantheists 'in general'. Of course there is a learning curve.
The rest of you seem use the opportunity of correction to throw out the baby with the rest of the cliche.
I firmly believe, that egotheistic pantheists, have taken pantheism to it's logical conclusion. That doesn't make 'pantheism proper' correct. It just distinguishes it from the more active and relevant form today.
That may be a moderated opinion from the original OP, but it is an honest one that explains what I saw, without having completely put the pieces together.
There are really only one or two others here besides myself who appear to be interested in actually developing the theme, and looking at it with an open and reasonable mind. I am not implying they agree either.
My thanks to them...
By the Way, C.S. Lewis almost became a pantheist. And he said 'that it is not sso much false, as hopelessly behind the times. At one time it would have been correct to say that all is God. but then God created things to be other than Himself.'
In other words, God created an angel who is Chaos. A beautiful creature if it's place is used rightly, as are we.
There is more to consider about these last two satements, but I cannot get to it now, and this is really not the thread (technically). And I maust go to work and will not return for at least a day.
Time to go truckin'...
Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Phat, posted 01-16-2007 5:13 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 221 of 308 (377696)
01-18-2007 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by Phat
01-17-2007 12:10 AM


Re: Daffynitions and Phat commentary
It has always been my belief that either we were imagined/created by God long before we as humans had the capability to define our religious beliefs or we imagined God and spread many stories and myths to keep the concept and legend alive.
I believe the former: We were made in His image...His imagination. I won't attempt to push this belief only because I wouldn't or shouldn't be an Ego theist. I don't identify my self with God in a conscious way, except to perhaps believe that I am in Communion (a common union) with His Spirit at times....(always? I dunno )
I agree with you completely. Only in a spiritual sense are we now in Christ. God will not impart the fullness of His glory to us until the ressurection. 'No flesh shall glory in His presense', and all that... We simply can't handle that kind of power.
Just look at me as to why... I do get a little caught up at times. More so in the past, and with a God shaped learning curve, I pray less so in the future.
What is interesting is that Christ was the embodiment of God. So He is the consumate egotheist in the sense of the definition. But there is nothing egoic about Him... So I think the definition imparts a flavor of conceit that is only truthful when applied to the pantheist stripe of it.
For Christ it was simply reality revealed.
For the mere man, be it ancient Egyptian Pharoahs, or modern day New Age mystics, it is plain blasphemy!
Thanks for the reasearch by the way... I appriciate that!
I want to say that I have been rather irresponsible here at EVC. I am not talking about the misattributions of pantheism in this thread. I may have promoted myself better had I not been so impatient, but the whole notion of promoting myself is more to the point.
For example, I told Iceage not to hold his breath in relation to much of a response from pantheists...
The part that troubles me is my taunting of them in saying it so. I am a proud man. Too proud really. And that pride makes my message one of hypocrasy in a horribly disfiguring way.
I have tried to own these ideas too often. To present them as my own. But if anything, the one thing getting in the way of the message is me.
For I am not the message. I am only a messenger. Someone said that I should own my ideas. No, they have it backwards... God has already thought of everything.
If I claim anything as my own, I am a liar. I brought nothing into this world. And I will take nothing out of it. I am poor and in need. And since I realized that, He has been faithful to provide.
He spoke to me yesturday on the road while listening to Revelation.
Revelation 2:2 I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. 3 You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary. 4 Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love. 5 Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. 6 But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
You see, at first I did all for His glory. I was just happy to know and see and revel in His wisdom. But somewhere between here and there, I lost sight of something...
It's not about me... It's about Christ.
So to those who wish to point out my sins, and attack me and my motivations... I bring that on myself, but I am not the issue.
The ideas are not my own...
The issue is simply this... What do you do with Christ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Phat, posted 01-17-2007 12:10 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by anastasia, posted 01-18-2007 12:54 AM Rob has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 222 of 308 (377699)
01-18-2007 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Archer Opteryx
01-15-2007 1:06 AM


blind faith vs seeing faith
What can the mind's eye see?
Archer:
An irrational conclusion may still be true. Its likelihood has just not been demonstrated rationally.
Irrational conclusions cannot be true because they are by definition... irrational. Things said to be funny or sad (as you used to refute this), are not equivocal to being true or false. Emotions do not fall into rational catagories. That is the danger of thinking with your heart. Especially if the heart is corrupted and diseased and in need of mending. It desires that which is out of balance with the rational mind.
The best we could say of a conclusion in question, is that we do not yet know whether it is rational or not. But if it is irrational as your statement presupposes, then it is false.
All irrational conclusions are false. You can believe otherwise, but it is purely blind faith based on a feeling rather than logic and reason.
Seeing faith occurs when what is believed is rational, and the heart confirms the feeling of rightness. That is the beauty of Christ. He opens our eyes and gives light, whereas others have faith in darkness. He heals the heart and puts it in line with the mind once again.
If we insist on having our sin because our heart is bent, then it will not line up with the straight and narrow line of the minds eye. YOu will end up distorting the mind to match the distorted heart.
Light vs darkness...
Blind faith vs seeing faith...
Romans 12:2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Matthew 10:26 "So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-15-2007 1:06 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-20-2007 4:56 AM Rob has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 224 of 308 (377701)
01-18-2007 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by anastasia
01-18-2007 12:54 AM


Re: Daffynitions and Phat commentary
I didn't mean to ignore you btw, I was just beseiged with the onslaught.
Your still one of my favorites always...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by anastasia, posted 01-18-2007 12:54 AM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by anastasia, posted 01-18-2007 1:17 AM Rob has not replied
 Message 247 by Phat, posted 01-20-2007 5:28 AM Rob has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 234 of 308 (377918)
01-18-2007 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Archer Opteryx
01-16-2007 12:28 AM


Re: a word in your ear, gunslinger
Archer:
You are not 'Christianity.'
Tell that to the egotheistic (New Age) pantheists... I already know. That's what I've been trying to say. I do my best to tell people that Jesus is Christianity.
I'm confused. Is the message getting through?
Archer:
And it impresses nobody when you romanticize yourself as the embodiment of an entire religion and all its martyrs combined, then congratulate yourself in the next breath on your humility.
No, you're wrong on that point. It impresses a lot of people when it is done in the name of 'freedom from moral absolutes', and under the guise of being 'inclusive'. Sounds to me like you're describing the gay rights movement.
Archer, I am proud of you. You're preaching logical Christian reasoning and were not even aware of it.
Do you see how easily we miss the obvious?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-16-2007 12:28 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-20-2007 1:57 PM Rob has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 249 of 308 (378450)
01-20-2007 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by Archer Opteryx
01-20-2007 4:56 AM


Re: Logic 101
That's why logicians speak of the validity of their conclusions rather than automatically ascribing truth or falsehood to them.
I plainly don't care for magicians illusions...
I see right through the deception. If you do not, and my attempts to enlighten are not perceived, then oh well. It's not my job to save you... that's between you and God.
I just do my best to say what I think and mean what I say.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-20-2007 4:56 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by anastasia, posted 01-20-2007 11:22 PM Rob has replied
 Message 255 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-21-2007 12:37 AM Rob has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 250 of 308 (378452)
01-20-2007 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Phat
01-20-2007 5:28 AM


Re: Daffynitions and Phat commentary
Do you see my point? Our mission here as Christians is not to convince anybody of the Truth™ but to show others that we are peculiar, but not entirely wacko (Waco?) or delusional.
Well if I am missing something I will just have to learn the hard way. I've never thought you were 'the enemy' btw. In fact our discourse in the chat room long ago inwhich I said I didn't trust you was because I was confusing you with AdminPD.
As for whowing that we are not entirely wacko... how? By becoming more worldly?
I think the New Testament makes it clear that we are aliens in enemy territory. They will not understand until they choose to. Their problem is not intellectual but moral.
As my sister has said, 'you are a total lunatic in their minds.'
I am happy to play the fool for Christ. Blessed!
They that will hear will hear.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Phat, posted 01-20-2007 5:28 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by Phat, posted 01-21-2007 12:25 AM Rob has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 251 of 308 (378458)
01-20-2007 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by Archer Opteryx
01-20-2007 1:57 PM


Re: divine math
Smoke and mirrors may appeal to you and your fan base, but not I. You're better than this and need to step up and be a man some day.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-20-2007 1:57 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 253 of 308 (378511)
01-21-2007 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by anastasia
01-20-2007 11:22 PM


Re: Logic 101
I do hope you know what he means, Rob. I think Archer is one of the most spiritual people here. Perhaps that is my bias, but being an artist I know artists CAN NOT survive without the element of the spiritual.
The Trinity is for example a logically valid conclusion given the evidence we have/don't have. Whether or not it is true or false is not possible to determine. And believe me, I have been a christian for longer than you have, and it is not possible still. Even if it is the most logical conclusion, it is not possible to say it is true, or it is false.
Two things Amastasia...
1. I was baptised into the Cathoilc church as an infant. I can't even remember it. And it was maningless. I was baptised with the Holy Spirt about 4 years ago, and I have learned more in those 4 years than in the preceding 32 years on this planet. Most of it came within the first days. Putting it into words will take a lifetime+.
2. I have no doubts that Archer is spiritual. Being spiritual is not = to holiness or godliness. There are evil spirits you know?
All of us are spirits. Even people who do not believe they are. You can be a complete spiritual dolt, and still be very spiritual. But in that case, it is a spirit of infirmity. Of blindess and deafness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by anastasia, posted 01-20-2007 11:22 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by anastasia, posted 01-21-2007 1:37 AM Rob has replied
 Message 264 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-21-2007 9:40 AM Rob has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 256 of 308 (378518)
01-21-2007 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 254 by Phat
01-21-2007 12:25 AM


Re: Yahweh or the highway
Diffent gifts for all... all needed for the completness of the prize set before us. I follow you bro.
All I know is this... that I have learned much here at EVC. I look back at my first posts with some shame. I'm sure I will look back with simmilar maturity in due time at the present.
I place no pressure on myself at this point. It is training. And this is rough territory. A good place to learn to lay down our pride at the foot of the cross.
There is a place for my ministry even if this is not it. I pray I will continue to grow in Him. And I pray you, NJ, and the others will as well. May He accomplish his will for us individually, and collectively with our repentance at each crossroads.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by Phat, posted 01-21-2007 12:25 AM Phat has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 257 of 308 (378519)
01-21-2007 12:47 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by Archer Opteryx
01-21-2007 12:37 AM


Re: Logic 101
Whatever Archer... I'm unimpressed and learning to discern who to spend the precious energy on.
Logic is real simple... It does not contradict itself.
A logician (as I interpreted your taunt) is a game player. A fiddler with words. A magic philospher. An escape artist. A word smith. A childish amnipulator. An obfuscator. A petty liar. A brilliant lawyer. A medlesome tyrant. A boob! A nincompoop. A no-man. An anti-man. A man who commits suicide of thought.
Better known as a Bart Simpson in a 'jar'... 'You can't prove it. Nobody saw me do it. You can't prove anything.'
Well, I can't argue with that!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-21-2007 12:37 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-21-2007 9:19 AM Rob has not replied
 Message 263 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-21-2007 9:22 AM Rob has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 259 of 308 (378530)
01-21-2007 1:52 AM
Reply to: Message 258 by anastasia
01-21-2007 1:37 AM


Re: Logic 101
Only if you have made it so.
I should have spoken more carefully. My baptism became meaningful as a sign of obedience only when I made the descision as an adult. So, I gave it meaning not the other way round.
Beyond that, it is only a ritual. Rituals are good, but only when they are married with understanding or pure intent. My parents understanding was minimal because they have admitted that as to that time in their lives, but their intentions were pure, so it was meaningful to them still.
Archer's spirit does not seem diablical to me. Sorry.
Would a diabolical spirit present itself as diabolical? Or does the enemy present itself as a warm and caring angel of light? A creature who is kind and loving and full of charm and clever philosophies?
Maybe you're right my friend, but pure intentions aside, one of us is very wrong... Very, very, very, wrong.
Collosians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.
Corinthians 11: 10 As surely as the truth of Christ is in me, nobody in the regions of Achaia will stop this boasting of mine. 11 Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do! 12 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by anastasia, posted 01-21-2007 1:37 AM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by DrJones*, posted 01-21-2007 2:28 AM Rob has replied
 Message 261 by anastasia, posted 01-21-2007 2:54 AM Rob has replied
 Message 265 by ringo, posted 01-21-2007 10:52 AM Rob has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 266 of 308 (378608)
01-21-2007 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by DrJones*
01-21-2007 2:28 AM


Re: Logic 101
Ah so Jesus = Evil spirit, well why didn't you say so before?
Did you think He was a pushover? A meek and passive 'girlyman'?
This is just a taste of Him for you to eat, my dear DrJonesinforabrain...
Luke 12:49 "I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by DrJones*, posted 01-21-2007 2:28 AM DrJones* has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 267 of 308 (378609)
01-21-2007 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by anastasia
01-21-2007 2:54 AM


Re: Logic 101
I had understanding and pure intent when I baptized my babies into Christ. It was a sacrament, not only a ritual. A sacrament is when God imparts His grace, and his Holy Spirit.
I don't remember baptism of babies in the Jordan by John... And we are baptised in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The baptism of the Spirit is something else. If you don't understand that, then you are placing your fiath in rituals and dead religion.
Matthew 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
How perverted are some of our churches Anastasia? How controlling and religious are they? And how they pressure us to conform to their rules at the expense of life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by anastasia, posted 01-21-2007 2:54 AM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by anastasia, posted 01-21-2007 2:55 PM Rob has replied

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