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Author Topic:   General Discussion Of Moderation Procedures 9.0
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 181 of 301 (378986)
01-22-2007 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by PaulK
01-22-2007 4:02 PM


Re: What would you have us do?
I faced Randman arguing that an essay on talkorigins.org claimed that universal common descent was a fact when it explicitly said that universal common descent should not be considered a fact. And Randman continued blustering and arguing long after it was pointed out. I know what he's like. And I argue that they are evidence of mental illness, not dishonesty.
Reasonable and rational persons are more inclined to view your disagreements with Randman based upon the fact that you are a Darwinist and he is a Creationist.
Ray

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by PaulK, posted 01-22-2007 4:02 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by PaulK, posted 01-22-2007 4:32 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 182 of 301 (378987)
01-22-2007 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Taz
01-22-2007 4:23 PM


Re: What would you have us do?
PaulK writes:
And mental illness at least carries no moral judgement.
Taz writes:
Same reason why people resort to not guilty for reason of insanity.
Nonetheless, had Dr. A responded to Randman by saying, "You are mentally ill. This is a delusion, created by your diseased mind," do we honestly think he would have received a lighter punishment than if he had said, "You are a liar. This is a lie?"

"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Taz, posted 01-22-2007 4:23 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 183 of 301 (378989)
01-22-2007 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Cold Foreign Object
01-22-2007 4:27 PM


Re: What would you have us do?
That says a lot about your idea of "reasonable and rational" people. A genuinely "reasonable and rational" person would see that Randman was being irrational and unreasonable and refusing to accept the obvious truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 01-22-2007 4:27 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 01-22-2007 4:47 PM PaulK has replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 184 of 301 (378990)
01-22-2007 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by crashfrog
01-22-2007 4:02 PM


Re: A Question
Yeah but they were black and white on different sides.
I can't believe you just hand-waved that essential part of it away.

Drinking when we are not thirsty and making love at any time, madam, is all that distinguishes us from the other animals.
-Pierre De Beaumarchais (1732-1799)
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by crashfrog, posted 01-22-2007 4:02 PM crashfrog has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 185 of 301 (378991)
01-22-2007 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by crashfrog
01-22-2007 4:02 PM


Re: A Question
crash writes:
Why wasn't Dr. A showcased, instead?
Excellent idea. If full-time denizens of Showcase are there because they are incorrigible, then why not have short-term suspensions served there as well?
That would improve the Showcase neighborhood, provide consistent justice, and (likely, shudder) inhibit repeat offenses.
Edited by Omnivorous, : removed the stupid "both" before three things

Drinking when we are not thirsty and making love at any time, madam, is all that distinguishes us from the other animals.
-Pierre De Beaumarchais (1732-1799)
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by crashfrog, posted 01-22-2007 4:02 PM crashfrog has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 186 of 301 (378992)
01-22-2007 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Dan Carroll
01-22-2007 4:30 PM


Re: What would you have us do?
If he had been insulting about it then he would certainly have been suspended. If he had stuck to saying that the statements were obvious untruths he would probably not have been suspended.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Dan Carroll, posted 01-22-2007 4:30 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 187 of 301 (378995)
01-22-2007 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by PaulK
01-22-2007 4:11 PM


Re: What would you have us do?
Either Randman and the rest know that their blatant untruths are falsehoods or they don't. I'm just suggesting the alternative that seems more likely to me. And mental illness at least carries no moral judgement.
Most mentally ill persons do not consider themselves as such. Case in point: Darwinists believe the appearance of design corresponds to mindless process; inhabitants of nature descend from a common ancestor, and that apes gradually morphed into men; and they think these miracles are rational and reflect scientific investigation.
Ray

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by PaulK, posted 01-22-2007 4:11 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by PaulK, posted 01-22-2007 4:47 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 190 by Taz, posted 01-22-2007 4:48 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 197 by nator, posted 01-22-2007 5:02 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 188 of 301 (378996)
01-22-2007 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Cold Foreign Object
01-22-2007 4:40 PM


Re: What would you have us do?
So actually following reason and the evidence is a sign of mental illness according to you.
Well that would certainly be convenient for you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 01-22-2007 4:40 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 189 of 301 (378997)
01-22-2007 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by PaulK
01-22-2007 4:32 PM


Re: What would you have us do?
That says a lot about your idea of "reasonable and rational" people. A genuinely "reasonable and rational" person would see that Randman was being irrational and unreasonable and refusing to accept the obvious truth.
Very "reasonable and rational" position you take: agree with me or you are mentally ill.
Ray

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by PaulK, posted 01-22-2007 4:32 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by PaulK, posted 01-22-2007 4:54 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 190 of 301 (378998)
01-22-2007 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Cold Foreign Object
01-22-2007 4:40 PM


Re: What would you have us do?
Herepton writes:
...apes gradually morphed into men...
Would you like to provide the appropriate genuine academic texts that says this in the appropriate thread?

AKA G.A.S.B.Y.
George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 01-22-2007 4:40 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 191 of 301 (378999)
01-22-2007 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by crashfrog
01-22-2007 3:47 PM


Re: An Elegy for Dr. Adequate, Over-Suspended Over A Troll
Dr A wasn't suspended for simply saying, "you're being dishonest". I have read a number of threads where members have questioned eachothers honesty and nobody was suspended.
I cannot tell for sure because I haven't gotten a lot of feedback about it but I feel pretty good about the way I handled NJ in the couple of instances where it arose in the GD thread.
I don't find it is very useful to try to convince the person telling the lies that they are liars. I feel it is more important to expose that fact to the rest of the readers. Simply shouting, "your a liar" doesn't really add anything to the conversation other than vitrol.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by crashfrog, posted 01-22-2007 3:47 PM crashfrog has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 192 of 301 (379000)
01-22-2007 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Cold Foreign Object
01-22-2007 4:17 PM


Dr Adequate and CK haved been banned. I protest: these persons should not be banned.
AdminModulous is drunk on "power" and should be relieved of his duties. He makes no sense and seems to be the stereotypical college type kid attempting to impress his older Darwinian handlers who have taken him in at the expense of EvC patrons.
Ray
Nonsense--first, neither was banned; second, AdminModulous said what he would do, and that's what he did.
And in my own case, my remarks were an act of uncivil disobedience, and I respect AdminMod's judgments and actions.
Ray, in the context of the ongoing discussion about charges of lying and mental illness, let me assure you that I have never thought you were a liar.

Drinking when we are not thirsty and making love at any time, madam, is all that distinguishes us from the other animals.
-Pierre De Beaumarchais (1732-1799)
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 01-22-2007 4:17 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 193 of 301 (379001)
01-22-2007 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Cold Foreign Object
01-22-2007 4:47 PM


Re: What would you have us do?
quote:
Very "reasonable and rational" position you take: agree with me or you are mentally ill.
That is an obvious misrepresentation, Ray. I stated that continued and repeated denial of an obvious objective truth was a sign of mental illness. Whereas you have claimed hat people who disagree with your opinion are mentally ill.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 01-22-2007 4:47 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 01-22-2007 4:58 PM PaulK has replied

AdminSchraf
Inactive Member


Message 194 of 301 (379003)
01-22-2007 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by PaulK
01-22-2007 2:58 PM


Re: An Elegy for Dr. Adequate, Over-Suspended Over A Troll
quote:
Randman is in the Showcase forum BECAUSE he is incapable of following the guidelines. That's why he wasn't suspended. He can do pretty much what he likes there. By all means point out his violations to anyone who suggests he's fit to be let out into the relatively civilised areas of this forum but until he is let out he isn't going to be punished for disrespect, personal attacks or baseless accusations. If he was going to be punished for that he'd be permnently banned because he just can't stop himself.
I partly disagree.
I agree that randman is restricted to the showcase because he wasn't able to follow the forum guidelines. Mostly, I believe this refers to his past refusal to support his arguments with evidence, his penchant for casting nefarous aspersions upon scinetists who accept the ToE, and his tendency to derail every thread by constantly injecting his own pet ideas.
He was also rather apt to use derisive and insulting language, but his abuse of others seems to have become much worse now that he has his own little kingdom.
I do not think it is acceptable for Randman to insult and flame with impunity just because he is in Showcase. Let him argue poorly and debate badly, but I think that he should have some consequences for using ad hominem attacks.
If Dr. A must be suspended for a month, I suggest that he should be suspended from the showcase forum only.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by PaulK, posted 01-22-2007 2:58 PM PaulK has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 195 of 301 (379004)
01-22-2007 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by PaulK
01-22-2007 4:54 PM


Re: What would you have us do?
That is an obvious misrepresentation, Ray. I stated that continued and repeated denial of an obvious objective truth was a sign of mental illness. Whereas you have claimed hat people who disagree with your opinion are mentally ill.
Nope.
You and Dan Carroll said anyone who does not agree with you are mentally ill.
Why have you lied?
Is it because that you know that the Mods will let you get away with it?
Ray
Edited by Herepton, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by PaulK, posted 01-22-2007 4:54 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by PaulK, posted 01-22-2007 5:05 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied
 Message 199 by Dan Carroll, posted 01-22-2007 5:09 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 201 by crashfrog, posted 01-22-2007 6:16 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied
 Message 222 by arachnophilia, posted 01-22-2007 8:01 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

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