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Author Topic:   Discrimination against homosexuals carried into the 21st century
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5499 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 211 of 313 (378921)
01-22-2007 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by docpotato
01-22-2007 12:32 PM


"The whole gay thing"
docpotato wrote:
I don't know what you mean by "the whole gay thing". Are you referring to civil rights?
Please educate me. When was it decided officially that gay rights = civil rights?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by docpotato, posted 01-22-2007 12:32 PM docpotato has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by docpotato, posted 01-22-2007 12:46 PM Fosdick has not replied
 Message 213 by Taz, posted 01-22-2007 1:15 PM Fosdick has not replied

docpotato
Member (Idle past 5047 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 212 of 313 (378924)
01-22-2007 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by Fosdick
01-22-2007 12:40 PM


Re: "The whole gay thing"
Please educate me. When was it decided officially that gay rights = civil rights?
I thought gay rights referred to the civil rights of gay people?
Edited by docpotato, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Fosdick, posted 01-22-2007 12:40 PM Fosdick has not replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 213 of 313 (378930)
01-22-2007 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by Fosdick
01-22-2007 12:40 PM


Re: "The whole gay thing"
Hoot Mon writes:
Please educate me. When was it decided officially that gay rights = civil rights?
This one simple statement tells us more about you than you hoped.
Dictionary tells me that "civil" means:
1. Of, relating to, or befitting a citizen or citizens: civil duties.
2. Of or relating to citizens and their interrelations with one another or with the state: civil society; the civil branches of government.
3. Of ordinary citizens or ordinary community life as distinguished from the military or the ecclesiastical: civil authorities.
4. Of or in accordance with organized society; civilized.
5. Sufficiently observing or befitting accepted social usages; not rude: a civil reply. See Synonyms at polite.
6. Being in accordance with or denoting legally recognized divisions of time: a civil year.
7. Law Relating to the rights of private individuals and legal proceedings concerning these rights as distinguished from criminal, military, or international regulations or proceedings.
Since at least before this point you did not consider gay rights issue to be that of a civil rights issue, at least deep down inside you did not consider gay people to be citizens of equal status as you.
You started out trying to sound tolerant. But now your bigotry is beginning to show.

AKA G.A.S.B.Y.
George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Fosdick, posted 01-22-2007 12:40 PM Fosdick has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by docpotato, posted 01-22-2007 2:19 PM Taz has not replied

docpotato
Member (Idle past 5047 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 214 of 313 (378949)
01-22-2007 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Taz
01-22-2007 1:15 PM


Re: "The whole gay thing"
Nicely put. But, oh man, I hope Hoot doesn't start asking why his boat can't have the same civil rights as everyone else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Taz, posted 01-22-2007 1:15 PM Taz has not replied

Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5499 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 215 of 313 (378950)
01-22-2007 2:19 PM


OK. Thanks. I was only asking. Jesus! You'd think I'd said something that was politically incorrect around here.
”Hoot Mon

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 216 of 313 (378961)
01-22-2007 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Fosdick
01-22-2007 2:19 PM


Hoot Mon writes:
You'd think I'd said something that was politically incorrect around here.
"Political correctness" has nothing to do with it. It's about a basic understanding of human rights.
In case the concept is new to you: All humans have the same rights - regardless of skin colour, sex, age, religious affiliation, who they sleep with, what their favourite ice cream is....
As soon as you start categorizing who has what rights, the whole concept goes out the window.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Fosdick, posted 01-22-2007 2:19 PM Fosdick has not replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 217 of 313 (378963)
01-22-2007 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Fosdick
01-22-2007 2:19 PM


It's not that we jump on you for being politically incorrect. I say things that are controversial all the time. For example, I've been saying this for years and I will still be saying it for many years to come: Christians deep down are selfish and immoral, which is why they always claim to have the moral high ground.
That sound politically correct to you?
Hoot, if you don't like gay people or think there is something nasty about the way they live, just say it and give your reasons. What people like me don't like is seeing how you put on the tolerant mask and then every once in a while give us a glimpse of your real face.
You've unintentionally shown your real face several times before. For example, in another thread, you said that the "gay problem" would be solved once gayness could be cured with outgoing patients. I pointed out in the other thread, as I will point out right now, that this is the kind of attitude we have toward AIDS, leprosy, and a myriad of other diseases that we consider a plague on mankind.
It's these kinds of posts that tell me you are not as tolerant of people who are different than you as you have been claiming. You put your pants on a certain way in the morning. You drive your car a certain way. You like a certain kind of movie. You use one hand to get toilet paper and the other to wipe. Consciously, you want to be tolerant of people who do all these things different than you. But deep down, I suspect that you think your way is the right and only way to do these things.
But don't take this the wrong way. Nobody is asking you to like gay people or to like the concept of gay marriage. I was one of those who was dragged to see brokeback mountain by the wife. In the whole two hours, my eyes were on the screen but inside I was thinking about the war and horror movies I'd seen recently. It is my opinion that that was by far the most boring movie out there. But that's only an opinion.

AKA G.A.S.B.Y.
George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Fosdick, posted 01-22-2007 2:19 PM Fosdick has not replied

Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5499 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 218 of 313 (379012)
01-22-2007 5:12 PM


My excuse for being rational
Ringo, TD, DC, et al.:
You young guys think you know everything, of course. That's your fault for being young. What you may not know is that I'm an old guy with more relevant experiences than you.
I was married once to a wiccan. She was straight, but many of the other wiccas in her coven were not. We even got married by one of them who had some kind of credentials. At that time NONE of the lesbian wiccas wanted to be "married" according to straight law, because they were part of an active counterculture in Seattle and disdained that Christian tradition. My wife's coven was alligned with gay men who called themselves "The Good Fairies" and claimed to be members of "The Queer Nation." When my wife's coven held its ceremonies the Good Fairies took part in them. They gathered the firewood and called it "fagot duty," and then they formed a protective circle around the cermony to guard it against intrusion.
We once had her coven along with the Good Fairies over for a BBQ. I can tell you that the wiccas were a little rank and didn't shave their legs or under their arms. The Good Fairies were scrawny and surly and very aloof towards me. They probably didn't like the smell of my testosterone. Back then those gays didn't want to get "married" either according to striaght tradition. The whole thing for them was the counterculture, not the straight culture. And then things changed.
Somewhere along the way the gays decided to claim their "civil rights" and demand equal access to straight culture. That's were I started to say: Hey, wait minute. First they don't want to be like the straights and then they do. Well, what DO they want, other than to bang on their closet door? That's why my liberal past and my libertarian present is not too sympathetic toward their demands for "gay marriage." Seems a little hypocritical to me.
So go ahead and call me a bigot if you need to. But I'm not a bigot because I support cilvil unions for gays. I believe I have more experience than most of you in exploring and tolerating gay culture. I just don't see the need to overthrow tradition in this particlar case.
”Hoot Mon

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by docpotato, posted 01-22-2007 5:24 PM Fosdick has replied
 Message 220 by Chiroptera, posted 01-22-2007 5:29 PM Fosdick has replied
 Message 221 by Dan Carroll, posted 01-22-2007 5:34 PM Fosdick has replied
 Message 224 by ringo, posted 01-22-2007 5:43 PM Fosdick has replied
 Message 225 by crashfrog, posted 01-22-2007 6:20 PM Fosdick has not replied
 Message 305 by nator, posted 01-23-2007 8:20 PM Fosdick has not replied

docpotato
Member (Idle past 5047 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 219 of 313 (379016)
01-22-2007 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by Fosdick
01-22-2007 5:12 PM


Re: My excuse for being rational
Somewhere along the way the gays decided to claim their "civil rights" and demand equal access to straight culture. That's were I started to say: Hey, wait minute. First they don't want to be like the straights and then they do.
Even if we accept, for argument's sake, that your limited experience with gay culture (I use limited in the sense that everyone's experience is, by the fact that it's not the totality of all experience, limited) can stand for the whole of gay culture... how on earth is it hypocritical for people to change?
I said a lot of things when I was 18.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Fosdick, posted 01-22-2007 5:12 PM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by Fosdick, posted 01-22-2007 7:29 PM docpotato has replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 220 of 313 (379018)
01-22-2007 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by Fosdick
01-22-2007 5:12 PM


Hoot Mon's excuse for being "rational"?
quote:
I was married once to a wiccan. She was straight, but many of the other wiccas in her coven were not.
Yeah, this is going to be relevant to gays in general.
Why don't you title you next post "Hoot Mon's excuse for being a boot"? It'll have as much relevance to the contents, I bet, as this one does.

But government...is not simply the way we express ourselves collectively but also often the only way we preserve our freedom from private power and its incursions. -- Bill Moyers (quoting John Schwarz)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Fosdick, posted 01-22-2007 5:12 PM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 221 of 313 (379019)
01-22-2007 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by Fosdick
01-22-2007 5:12 PM


Re: My excuse for being rational
Ralph Wiggum writes:
You young guys think you know everything, of course.
No. I'm just well aware that I know more than you.
At that time NONE of the lesbian wiccas wanted to be "married" according to straight law, because they were part of an active counterculture in Seattle and disdained that Christian tradition.
Good for them.
Has no bearing on whether or not they should have the right to do so, but hey. Their choice is their choice.
Somewhere along the way the gays decided to claim their "civil rights" and demand equal access to straight culture.
Stoopid uppity fags.
That's were I started to say: Hey, wait minute. First they don't want to be like the straights and then they do.
"They", of course, being the monolothic group mind that speaks for all homosexuals everywhere.
They are one. They are legion.
But I'm not a bigot because I support cilvil unions for gays.
Yuh-huh. We've been over this, and over it, and over it, and every time you just wait a bit, and repeat, "I support civil unions for gays."
Your cat's breath smells like cat food. You bent your wookie. It tastes like burning.
Here's a red ball. Perhaps you'd like to bounce it in the corner while the grownups are talking.

"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Fosdick, posted 01-22-2007 5:12 PM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by docpotato, posted 01-22-2007 5:40 PM Dan Carroll has replied
 Message 232 by Fosdick, posted 01-22-2007 7:43 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

docpotato
Member (Idle past 5047 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 222 of 313 (379020)
01-22-2007 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Dan Carroll
01-22-2007 5:34 PM


Re: My excuse for being rational
Here's a red ball. Perhaps you'd like to bounce it in the corner while the grownups are talking.
That line was said to Lisa, not Ralph. Don't be unfair to Lisa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Dan Carroll, posted 01-22-2007 5:34 PM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Dan Carroll, posted 01-22-2007 5:43 PM docpotato has not replied
 Message 248 by Larni, posted 01-23-2007 4:02 AM docpotato has not replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 223 of 313 (379021)
01-22-2007 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by docpotato
01-22-2007 5:40 PM


Re: My excuse for being rational
My bad... I'll send Yeardley Smith a fruit basket or something.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by docpotato, posted 01-22-2007 5:40 PM docpotato has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 224 of 313 (379023)
01-22-2007 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by Fosdick
01-22-2007 5:12 PM


Re: My excuse for being rational
Hoot Mon writes:
Somewhere along the way the gays decided to claim their "civil rights" and demand equal access to straight culture.
No.
Gay people have always wanted equal access to their rights. If you knew a few gay people who didn't want to marry, that doesn't mean they didn't want equal rights.
... I'm not a bigot because I support cilvil unions for gays.
That's like saying, "I'm not a bigot because I support concentration camps for Jews." It's separating out gay people for "civil unions" that makes it unequal. And it's supporting unequal treatment that makes one a bigot.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Fosdick, posted 01-22-2007 5:12 PM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by Fosdick, posted 01-22-2007 7:03 PM ringo has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 225 of 313 (379033)
01-22-2007 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by Fosdick
01-22-2007 5:12 PM


Re: My excuse for being rational
That's why my liberal past and my libertarian present
Oh, that explains it. We've got a glibertarian here, folks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Fosdick, posted 01-22-2007 5:12 PM Fosdick has not replied

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