Discrimination against homosexuals carried into the 21st century

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Did you know that some gays have claimed Christopher Robin as one of their own.

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Wow. This is even less relevant than your post about your experiences with wicca.

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But government...is not simply the way we express ourselves collectively but also often the only way we preserve our freedom from private power and its incursions. -- Bill Moyers (quoting John Schwarz)

Such a lot of fluff! This reminds me of those flag-waving Americans who say it is unpatriotic to oppose the war in Iraq. Your argument lacks for philosophical substance. You are the one who is narrow-minded, not me. You wave your flag for civil-rights, and you don't even know how to define them. Let's see some rationality in your argument. And don't tell me that homosexuality and race are somehow equivalent. That's a huge insult to MLK and everything he stood for. Hey, maybe you're a racist. But I don't need to reduce my argument to petty name calling. Get some stuff, for crying out load, and put it in your pop gun. Show me something with a bang in it.”Hoot Mon

Unless sexuality somehow negates the fourteenth amendment, sure they are.You know, it's possible you've never read the fourteenth amendment. I know we've posted it several times, but it's still seems pretty likely that you just sorta scanned it and thought, "I choo-choo-choose you." Here, I'll throw it out one more time.

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All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

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The people you want to single out and prevent from marrying... are they citizens under that definition? Yes they are. Oh, shit. Can't single them out to be treated differently.Now, honestly, I'd like to give you a chance to correct me, should I be missing something. So if you can see some sort of equivalent to the phrase, "unless you're one of those dudes who does it with dudes, that's just messed up," in there, feel free to point it out.

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"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

If you think there is a difference, why don't you show us the difference instead of just decreeing it? Until you can show a difference between racist bigotry and homophobic bigotry, bigotry is just bigotry.(And I'd be willing to bet that Martin Luther King, Jr. would not agree with you on this issue.)

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Clever, HM, but turnabouts make the least effective insults. Why don't you try insulting me with epithets I didn't just hurl at you? Try a little creativity, next time, ok?

A person is born with a race; he/she has no choice in that matter. Nature rules absolutely. But is a person born to be gay? I don't know. I think it may be a matter of choice. Prove to me it isn't and I'll say you moved a step closer to equalizing race with sexuality. But do you really think there ought to be special laws protecting that choice? People choose to be Masons and body builders and cat owners, too; maybe they need their own special laws. I'll come around to your way of thinking when gay genes are discovered. And then there will be gay-gene therapy to straighten them out. And then we're be back to choice again.Dan Carroll brought out the Constitution and read us an Ammendment. Nice job, Dan. But where does it say anything about same-sex "marriages"? Where does it say anything about homosexuality? Where does even say anything about sexuality at all?Ringo, Dan, and the rest of you morality cops: Do you honestly believe that the framers of our Constitution or any of the authors of its Ammendments were the least bit concerned about the rights of gay people to get married? If you say yes, then I'm going for the history books.”Hoot Mon

Too true... Maybe the problem with your naysayers is that they have no foresight and no hindsight.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

Oh, you got around to renting that gay porn? Chose to let it turn you on, did you?Shall we give it... what, an hour before Ralph says, "no, I think it's probably genetic," then another hour, once he thinks we've forgotten, before he says, "no, I think it's a choice." That's what I asked you to find, Ralph. See, I found you the part where it guarantees all citizens equal treatment. Unless you can point to a clause that says homosexuals aren't citizens, or that the equal protection doesn't count when it comes to homosexuals, the matter's settled; homosexuals, being citizens of the country, get equal treatment.If straight people can get married, so can gay people. I know for a fact that I already pointed out to you, in a different thread, that the fourteenth amendment was not written by the framers of our Constitution.I guess you did just glance at it and think, "It says choo-choo-choose you, and there's a picture of a train!"

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"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

And yet you feel free to discriminate on the basis of what you don't know. That's not the way it works. You prove that homosexuality is nothing but a choice and then you can treat it like any other choice.The way human rights works is: equal until proven unequal. You are the one who is advocating special laws to discriminate against the "choice". I'm just saying, "let same-sex couples marry under the same laws as anybody else." No. We need to not pass special laws to discriminate against Masons, body builders and cat owners. Wait a minute. You're the one who wants to police gay marriage, not us. They also owned slaves and denied women the vote.At least be consistent. When you advocate anti-gay legislation, at least devote equal time for campaigning to reinstate slavery and restore the vote to only propertied white males.

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It's better to be sightless than heartless.

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Heh. You're right. Let's apply a little foresight to this problem:If we allow gays to get married, then gays will get married.Maybe hindsight is better:Well, the anti-miscegenationists were right -- once we allowed mixed race marriages, it was pretty much a given that the homosexuals would want the same rights. What fools we were!Is this what you had in mind?

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But government...is not simply the way we express ourselves collectively but also often the only way we preserve our freedom from private power and its incursions. -- Bill Moyers (quoting John Schwarz)

Well, that doesn't say a lot for the U.S. Constitution then, does it? Maybe we should throw out the whole darn thing and start over. This time let's give the Indians a better shake. I don't see anybody bothered by the abused they've taken. Let's have special laws for anybody who feels deprived, marginalized, downtrodden, and queer in any way.Dan, Ringo, please draft me a new Constitution. Let's trash that old one written by those awful bigots. Let's have everybody and their dogs get married. Let's have special laws assuring equal rights for pole sitters and coin collectors. See if you can fit it all in. And while you're at it, add an Ammendment to protect old people from being abused by ridiculous concepts...like the right to same-sex "marriage," and the right to gerrymander political districts, and the right to buy assault weapons at gun shows. I'd also get rid of the anti-sodomy laws, too. I don't mind what those fairies do behind closed doors. I just don't see the need to run it up the flag pole.”Hoot Mon

It says nothing about it one way or the other. Their prejudices weren't written into it. And knowing that they'd get some things wrong, they left the ability to amend it. Which we've done several times, one instance of which is that fourteenth amendment, which you keep avoiding.I can understand why you're avoiding it. If one actually sits and reads the fourteenth amendment, there's no way to avoid allowing gay marriage.That's okay, though. At this point, I'm sure no one here expects you to be able to read.

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"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

Still bragging about what you don't see. You're not paying attention: I said, "Let's NOT have special laws to discriminate against any of those groups."YOU are the one who wants to segregate gays into their own non-marriage ghetto. No need for that. Just use it as it was written, not as bigots wish it was written. Still not paying attention. We don't need any "special laws" to assure equal rights. We just need to prevent the passage of "special laws" that remove equal rights from anybody.

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I thought we had this cleared out in the other thread, but I guess you are one to forget easily.In this post of this thread, I showed evidence that an experimental procedure involving changing the hormonal balance within a subject's brain could change the subject's sexuality. This, to me at least, implicates that one's sexuality is more than a regular everyday choice that we make.But if you disagree with my take on this, perhaps you'd like to comment on what kind of implication such an experimental procedure tell us?Edited by Tazmanian Devil, : added in hoot's quote

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AKA G.A.S.B.Y.George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger