General Discussion Of Moderation Procedures 9.0

Hi Randman,While criticism of moderation is certainly on-topic for this thread, its intended purpose it not really for extended discussion. If you'd like to discuss the bias of EvC Forum moderation then please begin a thread in the Showcase forum. Thanks!

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Access to Showcase granted.I want to stress that regular members are expected to follow the Forum Guidelines, even when in Showcase.Before you two go at it I'd just like to say that giving as good as you get in trash talking isn't what EvC Forum is looking for. The goal here is constructive discussion.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

God, how'd I do that. I'm removing your access and giving it to Dr. A. Thanks for alerting me to the mistake.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Access to Showcase granted, but please keep in mind that regular members are expected to follow the Forum Guidelines, even in Showcase.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

I just want to go on record as saying that I agree with AdminModulous's recent actions. As much as I abhor Randman's approach to "discussion", his behavior does not justify Forum Guidelines violations. When someone tresspasses on your property it doesn't suddenly make it legal for you to tresspass on their property. Those who wish to take the law into their own hands will suffer the consequences.This is reminscent of Faith, though, who always left a long trail of suspended members in her wake. Why those who have the advantages of knowledge and rationality give in so frequently to their baser instincts is beyond me.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

I don't know, but it makes me a schmuck because I stuck up for Dr Adequate when Randman said he should be removed from Showcase. Had Dr Adequate merely stepped over the line he would have received the week I mentioned, but for some reason he went to extra lengths to do over and over and over again what he had been cautioned not to do.EvC Forum is a serious debate site. Those who wish to have a fine old time by mixing it up with some good old-fashioned ad hominem in the equivalent of a cowboy's weekend in town should go elsewhere.The Showcase forum is here only because so many people expressed an interest in discussion with the unmoderatable like Randman. But if the interest isn't so much in discussion but more in rattling the monkey cage, then Showcase should be eliminated because it simply attracts and emphasizes the worst from both sides.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

There's no off-limit word list.The Forum Guidelines need another revision, but for this discussion, the key rules of the Forum Guidelines are rules 4 and 10:

4. Points should be supported with evidence and/or reasoned argumentation. Address rebuttals through the introduction of additional evidence or by enlarging upon the argument. Do not repeat previous points without further elaboration. Avoid bare assertions.

10. Always treat other members with respect. Argue the position, not the person. Avoid abusive, harassing and invasive behavior. Avoid needling, hectoring and goading tactics.

The current rule 4 emerged out of a revision that combined two earlier rules that together had made a more clear statement about the requirement to discuss constructively.I often liken the Forum Guidelines to traffic laws. Many traffic laws are broken every day, indeed, every second. People role through stop signs, role through right turn on red, fail to yield at yield signs, pass on the right, exceed the speed limit, etc. and so forth. But by and large traffic roles along pretty smoothly.A policeman might give someone a ticket for erratic driving because they were not staying within the lane, and the person might challenge it in traffic court asking questions like, "If I deviate from the center of the lane by 10% am I not staying within the lane? How about 20%? I ask the court, how do you define staying within the lane? And if you can't define it, then how can anyone say that I was not properly maintaining my vehicle in the lane?" I hope this argument strikes most people as one that wouldn't, or at least shouldn't, be successful.Board administration cannot provide rules that list all the dos and don'ts. The world is far too varied and nuanced for such a list. And so the key requirement is discussing constructively.Calling someone a liar can be constructive and appropriate in one context (more likely a humorous context than anything else) and completely counterproductive in another. The key question is whether your approach is constructive, intended to move the discussion forward, improve understanding, or clearly communicate an idea.And it's also the totality of your approach. An accusation of lying is a bit strong for my taste but is probably not going to get you into trouble if done as part of a well reasoned presentation of evidence and argument. In other words, you travel for ten miles in front of a police car and drift over into the other lane once or twice. Probably nothing will happen. But if over that ten miles you do nothing *but* drift in and out of lanes, you'll probably get pulled over.So it isn't that calling someone a liar is inherently bad and so no one can ever call anyone a liar. It's that by the time someone is so upset that they're calling people liars, usually reason and rationality have long since left the barn, and once that happens you usually get posts that are all vituperation and no content. We try not to allow that here.Is this getting any clearer? What's that? You over there, you say you think it's clearer now?Why, you little liar you!

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Herepton,I know everyone is going to be disappointed, but I'm removing your permissions for the Suggestions and Questions forum. If you'd like to discuss moderation issues with other members you can propose a thread for Showcase.Edited by Admin, : Refer to this specific forum.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director