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Author Topic:   Hovind busted, finally
Lysimachus
Member (Idle past 5191 days)
Posts: 380
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 286 of 308 (379669)
01-25-2007 12:38 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by arachnophilia
01-25-2007 12:35 AM


Re: Not Voting Means Voting Against Democracy
There is a big difference between the taxes that actually go to the government and the Federal Income Tax that goes straight to the bankers filling their pockets and doing absolutely "0" for our troops or the American economy.
Tell me, before Federal Income Tax was introduced, where was America getting all their money? I can't remember the date exactly, but it was either in the late 1800rs or early 1900rs, perhaps later, that Federal Income Tax was introduced.
Again, I repeat. Watch the video. You'll be amazed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by arachnophilia, posted 01-25-2007 12:35 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by arachnophilia, posted 01-25-2007 12:48 AM Lysimachus has not replied
 Message 288 by kuresu, posted 01-25-2007 12:54 AM Lysimachus has not replied
 Message 290 by Vacate, posted 01-25-2007 3:29 AM Lysimachus has not replied
 Message 292 by jar, posted 01-25-2007 10:16 AM Lysimachus has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 287 of 308 (379672)
01-25-2007 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 286 by Lysimachus
01-25-2007 12:38 AM


Re: Not Voting Means Voting Against Democracy
but it was either in the late 1800rs or early 1900rs, perhaps later, that Federal Income Tax was introduced.
1861.
Tell me, before Federal Income Tax was introduced, where was America getting all their money?
other taxes. import/export taxes, excise taxes, etc.
There is a big difference between the taxes that actually go to the government and the Federal Income Tax that goes straight to the bankers filling their pockets and doing absolutely "0" for our troops or the American economy.
Again, I repeat. Watch the video. You'll be amazed.
i'm not in the mood for conspiracy theories just this second, thanks.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Lysimachus, posted 01-25-2007 12:38 AM Lysimachus has not replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 288 of 308 (379673)
01-25-2007 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 286 by Lysimachus
01-25-2007 12:38 AM


Re: Not Voting Means Voting Against Democracy
the first income tax I'm aware of was implemented by Lincoln to fund the Union effort against the CSA. After the war, it was stopped.
prior to the income tax, the major source of revenue for the government would be on excise taxes and tariffs.
the Federal Income Tax that goes straight to the bankers filling their pockets and doing absolutely "0" for our troops or the American economy.
wrong. do some reasearch.
quote:
Most of the Federal Government's revenue comes from income taxes
Front page | U.S. Department of the Treasury
It would seem that in fact, income tax supplies most of the revenue on which the government depends to fund such things as the military.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Lysimachus, posted 01-25-2007 12:38 AM Lysimachus has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 289 of 308 (379683)
01-25-2007 2:08 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by Lysimachus
01-24-2007 9:40 PM


Re: From Freedom to Fascism
The Bible says that the love of money is the root of all evil. Jesus came out in favour of paying tax even to the hated Roman authorities. For many years Kent Hovind openly defied the law and refused to pay the taxes due because of his love of money. Christians should agree that the judgement is correct and that he should pay the penalty prescribed by law.
quote:
I just wonder how quick you would be to defend one of your prized evolutionists if they were sent to prison for "tax evasion".
If they were definitely guilty I wouldn't. I would regard it is what they deserved. I might feel vaguely ashamed to be associated with them - even in so tenuous a way. It may please you to think that others share your faults, but it isn't so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Lysimachus, posted 01-24-2007 9:40 PM Lysimachus has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Vacate
Member (Idle past 4601 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 290 of 308 (379687)
01-25-2007 3:29 AM
Reply to: Message 286 by Lysimachus
01-25-2007 12:38 AM


Death and Taxes
Again, I repeat. Watch the video. You'll be amazed.
I have watched it. Without proper research into the various people mentioned and topics covered I cannot say if its factual or simply entertainment. Given the IRS having high success rates at recieving their money I think its mostly a moot point anyhow.
Kent Hovind however was not some patriot who challenged a corrupt government. He used a percieved flaw in the Federal Income Tax law to excuse himself from paying what millions of other Americans are forced to pay. Did he go out and use his influence to bring light to possible legal issues within the IRS to the common blue collar worker? NO. He spouted his nonsense and sold his videos.
Had Kent Hovind really believed that he was on moral high ground he would have paid his taxes and used his wealth and influence to speak about the IRS. He did no such thing. He made his money and refused to part with any of it believing that his lawyers could protect him - something the average American cannot afford to do. He managed to show nothing wrong with the legalities of the IRS and in turn pain the price for being a thief.
filling their pockets and doing absolutely "0" for our troops or the American economy.
So the good 'ole American hero Dr.Dino made sure to fill his own pockets and deprive the bankers. A stunning example of morality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Lysimachus, posted 01-25-2007 12:38 AM Lysimachus has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 291 of 308 (379704)
01-25-2007 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by Lysimachus
01-24-2007 9:40 PM


Re: From Freedom to Fascism
Lysimachus writes:
I just wonder how quick you would be to defend one of your prized evolutionists if they were sent to prison for "tax evasion".
You're accusing evolutionists of holding tax evasion wrong for creationists and okay for evolutionists? What leads you to this weird conclusion?
If you listen to the jailhouse tapes (Hovind Jail Calls Video (Starts with a commercial, it's audio after that)) you'll see that Hovind is an egomaniac who believes he can do no wrong. In conversation after conversation Hovind rants on and on about how he committed no crime, they couldn't point to any statute he violated, they're the ones committing the crime, the American public will be shocked when they discover what's been going on, he's going to continue suing them, he's still got teeth and he's going to use them, and so forth, all while his wife and family listen despairingly in the knowledge that Hovind will never abandon his delusions.
Hovind is a charismatic and glib personality who apparently believes his own bullshit. His many weird creationist positions make it clear how capable he is of ignoring hard evidence. He doesn't seem to be able to tell the difference between evidence from the real world and his own opinion, and he always lets his own opinions win out within his own mind. The sad thing is his ability to sway the minds of others. I'm glad that the jailhouse tapes reveal Jo Hovind to be able to question her husband's judgment while still not being able to turn him aside from his chosen course. This should make sentencing go much easier on her. I hope she receives no more than probation.
Literally hundreds of millions of Americans have paid their taxes, and if there are any successful tax scofflaws out there then they're keeping a pretty low profile. Al Capone went to jail over taxes when no other legal entity could nail him. Irwin Schiff, who wrote and lectured widely in the 1980s that American money was unconstitutional and therefore couldn't be taxed, went to jail. Just look at the list of tax protesters who instead of retiring in luxury to their Caribbean islands went to jail (Wikipedia: Tax Protester History - wow, Hovind's on the list already!).
If it were the voice of a famous and eminent evolutionist (say Edward O. Wilson or Nobel prize winner James Watson) on the jailhouse tapes instead of Hovind's I would react the exact same way: what an arrogant idiot! The difference would be that I would also think, "How extraordinarily out of character." With Hovind I instead think, "It figures he would do something as cockamamie as this!"
Scientists do not tolerate tomfoolery like this. Hwang Woo-suk, the South Korean stem cell researcher who fabricated data, has been roundly condemned by the scientific community. Pons and Fleishmann (of cold fusion fame) made the relatively innocent transgression (compared to actual lies and fraud) of by-passing the peer-review process to issue a public announcement, and they've never worked again in mainstream science.
It should never be a case of, "He's my guy, and therefore he can do no wrong," and I'm disappointed that you've made this accusation. I hope it is the case for all of us that we place the ideals of integrity, truth, honesty and responsibility first and foremost above all else. When measured against these ideals Hovind comes up short, very short.
Being a poor excuse of a human being is not a jailable offense, but Hovind went beyond this to brazenly break laws left and right. It wasn't just tax laws he violated, but any law that got in the way of what he wanted to do. He didn't even believe he had to get site approvals or inspections from the city of Pensacola for his Dinoland construction projects. That is why we believe prison is the right place for him, and we take great joy in the fact that the system has proven that it works and shown that people can't circumvent it just because they are famous and charismatic.
But these events will be very hard on the Hovind family, and we take no joy in that. Except for Kent Hovind, they are victims in this sad story.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Lysimachus, posted 01-24-2007 9:40 PM Lysimachus has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 292 of 308 (379714)
01-25-2007 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 286 by Lysimachus
01-25-2007 12:38 AM


Re: Not Voting Means Voting Against Democracy
There is a big difference between the taxes that actually go to the government and the Federal Income Tax that goes straight to the bankers filling their pockets and doing absolutely "0" for our troops or the American economy.
What? You mean paying interest on the DEBT that Ronald Reagan, George Bush and George Bush JR. created?
Tell me, before Federal Income Tax was introduced, where was America getting all their money? I can't remember the date exactly, but it was either in the late 1800rs or early 1900rs, perhaps later, that Federal Income Tax was introduced.
Uh, you mean back when we did not maintain a standing army, were behind every other nation in military research and development, had no Interstate Highway System, etc?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Lysimachus, posted 01-25-2007 12:38 AM Lysimachus has not replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 293 of 308 (379719)
01-25-2007 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by Lysimachus
01-24-2007 9:40 PM


a way to waste time
I highly suggest you watch the full video on google before responding. It builds up to a lot of shocking things in the middle and near the end that will blow you away.
Since near enough to everything you've posted as been full of nonsense and misinformation why would anyone waste time watching something you recommend.
Your ill informed ideas of taxation and the use of taxes in a modern state are just the latest of a long sequence of uninformed posts that you have made.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Lysimachus, posted 01-24-2007 9:40 PM Lysimachus has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 294 of 308 (379860)
01-25-2007 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by Lysimachus
01-24-2007 9:40 PM


Re: From Freedom to Fascism
quote:
It is so sad to see so many of you hear gloat over someone else's missfortune.
"Misfortune"?
I never heard a tax evasion conviction described as a "misfortune" before, but I suppose it is a "misfortune".
Easily preventable, though.
quote:
Do you think that most of the atheists here even care whether Kent paid his taxes or not? Phhuuh. Not in the least.
I care.
I care because he hasn't paid his share to support those intrepid men and women in uniform that defend our country.
I care that he hasn't paid his employees' social security taxes, so when they try to receive those funds, they will not be there. Not only does that make me feel for those people, it also means that they will be more likely to need other kinds of public assistance that the rest of us will pay for instead of who was supposed to in the first place.
I care that he used or benefitted from good roads, the electrical grid, the airwaves, schools, the police force, the national guard and coast guard, regulatory agencies, and many other government services that taxes pay for without contributing his fair share.
quote:
Most of you hear are gloating over his missfortune because of his person. Because you were sick of his "ridiculous" creation theories. That's the root of it, and it's certainly a root of evil.
Hey, he's the prideful, deceitful, selfish one, not paying his fair share.
He's also supposed to be a good Christian, isn't he?
quote:
Very sad. Goes to show just how "compassionate" the atheists/evolutionsts truly are as they claim to be.
Just goes to show you how "honest" the Christians truly are as they claim to be.
And I never did claim to be compassionate, you know.
quote:
The term "finally" at the end of the topic of this forum really says alot. And it surely doesn't send a pretty message. "Celebrating" over his 10 year sentence? If I were standing in front of you right now, and if I had no fear in a Living God, I would slap you in the face very hard.
Tell me, do you believe that people who commit tax fraud should go to jail, or not?
Is it wrong to be satisfied when a known swindler and liar finally gets caught and punished appropriately?
quote:
I just wonder how quick you would be to defend one of your prized evolutionists if they were sent to prison for "tax evasion".
Well, scientists tend to frown on dishonesty in science, since one's work tends to be based on the work of others.
People who are discovered to have purposefully fabricated data, for example, are no longer able to get a job doing science, since the taint of association is so great.
So, I'd say that anyone, even if they are a scientist, who tries to get away with tax evasion deserves what they get.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Lysimachus, posted 01-24-2007 9:40 PM Lysimachus has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 295 of 308 (379861)
01-25-2007 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by arachnophilia
01-24-2007 10:30 PM


Re: From Freedom to Fascism
quote:
If I were standing in front of you right now, and if I had no fear in a Living God, I would slap you in the face very hard.
and we would turn you the other cheek.
Speak for yourself!
I'd have him arrested for assault faster than you could spit.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by arachnophilia, posted 01-24-2007 10:30 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 296 of 308 (379868)
01-25-2007 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by nator
01-25-2007 4:39 PM


Re: From Freedom to Fascism
shh you're ruining my "holier than thou" vibe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by nator, posted 01-25-2007 4:39 PM nator has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3048 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 297 of 308 (380161)
01-26-2007 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by PaulK
01-25-2007 2:08 AM


Re: From Freedom to Fascism
The Bible says that the love of money is the root of all evil. Jesus came out in favour of paying tax even to the hated Roman authorities. For many years Kent Hovind openly defied the law and refused to pay the taxes due because of his love of money. Christians should agree that the judgement is correct and that he should pay the penalty prescribed by law.
For once I agree with PaulK.
Hovind's Creationist status is irrelevant. Tax evaders come in all shapes, sizes and colors and persuasions.
Ray

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by johnfolton, posted 01-26-2007 4:22 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 298 of 308 (380185)
01-26-2007 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by Cold Foreign Object
01-26-2007 2:40 PM


John F. Kennedy and Kent Hovind , etc....
Hovind's Creationist status is irrelevant. Tax evaders come in all shapes, sizes and colors and persuasions.
The foreign bankers not americans print up our money based on nothing and then reloan it back to us with interest and are exempt from taxation. Tax evaders come in all shapes, sizes and colors and persuasions however before Johnson became President the churches didn't need to sign a 501c3 to be exempt.
Makes one wonder if Johnson was in on the Kennedy assisination, or was he afraid of them killing him. Whatever he willfully went back to loaning money from the Feds and forced the churches silence by the 501c3 mandate. Think maybe the foreign bankers feared the churches had something to do with the 501c3 mandate.
Kent is truly a truly Great Man of God he never bound his ability to voice by signing the 501c3. Why can not America print her own money and not have to pay interest to these foreign bankers. The truth we could but will not because of the voices are being silenced. Kennedy was killed by these bankers and Kent was thrown in jail because who will pay the interest on the money loaned to America with interest made from nothing.
Why don't we release Kent and have him print money out of nothing and pay back these foreign bankers with nothing.
Do you think they would be receptive to the recieving of money based on nothing in payment? This is all that they are offering Americans and well thats our national debt based on nothing which is really something when it has to be paid back.
Simple way to eliminate the federal debt, just chase them out of the country and start printing our own money.
--------------------------------
According to information from the Library of the Comptroller of the Currency, Executive Order 11,110 remains in effect today, although successive administrations beginning with that of President Lyndon Johnson apparently have simply ignored it and instead returned to the practice of paying interest on Federal Reserve notes. Today we continue to use Federal Reserve Notes, and the deficit is at an all-time high.
http://www.rense.com/general44/exec.htm
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by subbie, posted 01-26-2007 5:33 PM johnfolton has not replied
 Message 300 by Coragyps, posted 01-26-2007 5:45 PM johnfolton has not replied
 Message 301 by NosyNed, posted 01-26-2007 6:16 PM johnfolton has not replied

subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 299 of 308 (380203)
01-26-2007 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by johnfolton
01-26-2007 4:22 PM


John F. Kennedy and Kent Hovind: the real story
Much too long to cut and paste here, but this site shows that your paranoiac and nearly incoherent ramblings about JFK are hogwash. It explains what Executive Order 11,110 really did, and how it didn't really change the law at all, or give the government any power to issue certificates that it hadn't had for 30 some years.
Edited by subbie, : No reason given.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by johnfolton, posted 01-26-2007 4:22 PM johnfolton has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 300 of 308 (380206)
01-26-2007 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by johnfolton
01-26-2007 4:22 PM


Re: John F. Kennedy and Kent Hovind , etc....
Kennedy was killed by these bankers
Watch for it at your movie theater soon! "Lee Harvey O. - Illuminati Banker!"
You're a riot, Charley.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by johnfolton, posted 01-26-2007 4:22 PM johnfolton has not replied

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