Theistic Evolution

Where is the connection? Are you saying just because I believe in a resurrection miracle that I have to also believe that everything an Atheist believes is automatically wrong? If an Atheist says that the sky is blue are you going to disagree with him. There is no logical connection between the two. Creation is a miracle whether it was by special creation or whether by the process of evolution. The original miracle is that God created. I don’t agree that TEists don’t see a supernatural deity as being responsible for design. The TofE is an attempt, rightly or wrongly, to explain how physical beings came to the point we see today. The point is that God did it. The difference in belief is that TEists believe that evolution is part of divine creation whereas Atheists believe that evolution is a product of random chance. The Bible is a gift from God. It isn’t an object that is meant to be worshipped.If some day you decide that there is something in the Bible is not literally true are you going to have to throw out the whole Christian faith?CS Lewis accepted evolution as being scientific and as being consistent with Christianity. He is considered by most to be the greatest Christian writer of the modern era. Here is something that he wrote concerning the Bible. I worship God and His incarnation into our physical world in the person of Jesus Christ. I agree with the Bible, which does not mean that I believe it is to be read as a science text or a newspaper. It must be wonderful to have greater spiritual wisdom than people like Lewis, Augustine etc. Edited by GDR, : No reason given.Edited by GDR, : No reason given.Edited by GDR, : Taking me forever to get the quotes straightened out

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Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

The story in Genesis is a story telling us that God created all that there is, and it is a story telling us in metaphorical terms how we have been given the knowledge of good and evil or a moral code.If you insist on reading the Bible as an accurate historic account I'm wondering how Cain found a wife outside of Eden. You ignored the quote from CS Lewis answering your question by the way.You've confirmed again that your faith rides on the Bible being literally true. The Christian faith is about Christ as God incarnate. You make it about the Bible. Even the Bible says that Jesus is the Word. The claim of the TofE is that it is the story of how mankind evolved. It makes no claim as to why mankind evolved. The idea that there is no intelligence that created is just as much a matter of faith as the idea that there is. I'm not quite sure how I've been outed as my post is consistent with what I've always posted.You know Ray, it is sad but this quote of yours is one reason why Biblical literalists are often given so little credibility. The basic Christian message is about loving God and loving our neighbour. Instead of attempting to lovingly show me the error of my ways you instead call me ignorant and tell me that you have nothing more to say to me. I wonder, WWJD.Cheers
Greg

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Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

Of course Jesus was a creationist. So am I. I also believe that the Bible is completely truthful when it tells us that God create, but I contend that the original writers of the Bible never intended that it should be read as a science text.I realize that you saying Jesus was a creationist means something different than when I say it, but can you tell me how it is that you know that Jesus took the Genesis account literally.Read the story of the Good Samaritan. Where does it say that it is a parable, yet everybody calls it a parable because it is obviously what it is. Jesus used metaphor all the time which was the Jewish tradition. That is how they wrote. Reading everything literally just devalues the message in the text. Jesus is pretty clear. Love God and love your neighbour. Jesus was harder on the Pharisees than He was on anyone else because of their legalism. You might want to consider you own views in that light. He also said something about not judging lest you be judged. That's real nice Ray. You know, you ask a question in your OP and I give you an answer thinking I'm corresponding with a fellow Christian. I give you an honest answer to the specific questions that you ask and then you call me a Judas and a traitor. Interesting approach for someone who thinks that they are being Christ-like.Edited by GDR, : No reason given.

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Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

Actually Ray I didn't say you weren't a Christian. I am merely suggesting that your lack of any evidence of love, (remember love God and love your neighbour), gives you virtually no credibility when it comes to talking about the Lord.

Hi RandmanHere is a quote from the interview with Antony Flew when he converted from Atheism to Theism.FLEW: Absolutely. It seems to me that Richard Dawkins constantly overlooks the fact that
Darwin himself, in the fourteenth chapter of The Origin of Species, pointed out that his whole
argument began with a being which already possessed reproductive powers. This is the creature
the evolution of which a truly comprehensive theory of evolution must give some account.
Darwin himself was well aware that he had not produced such an account. It now seems to me
that the findings of more than fifty years of DNA research have provided materials for a new and
enormously powerful argument to design.There are plenty of scientists such as Dawkins that use their credentials as scientists to give their non-scientific pronouncements scientific credence. Evolution is a theory of how and not why. Using evolution to explain first cause or abiogenesis is not science and is just as much a matter of faith as is Christianity.Edited by GDR, : The difference between their and there.

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Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

One thing that has occured to me. If evolution was set in motion by the divine using random chance and natural selection, and with no intervention in the process, it is conceivable that the end result didn't necessarily have to be mankind as we exist today. The part of us that makes us what we are isn't our body but is our consciousness/soul/spirit/personality or whatever you want to label it. It seems to me that once a creature with sufficient brain power evolved sufficiently the creator could have breathed consciousness/soul/spirit/personality into the body no matter what form it took.I know when in the next life I'm not going to be skipping any of the lectures.

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Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

I think that your definition of deism is wrong. A deist would say that God does not interact with us at all. I realize that I'm splitting hairs here but I would say that a TEist can accept that the genesis account as being the true way it happened; the difference being whether it is read as literal truth or as metaphorically truth. My contention is that there is a far greater truth to be found in the Genesis account with a metaphorical reading of the account than if you try and diminish it by trying to make it scientific.It tells us that God created. That is what is important. If you read it to say that we have been divinely given a consciousness that knows good and evil, right and wrong etc it is far more meaningful than if you see it is only important or true if if you are concerned about there being a literal talking snake.By the way, the term TEist has been used quite a bit on this thread but I think that probably most of the people who would get that label would be those like myself. I'm not a TEist simply for the reason that I don't have the biological knowledge to argue either for or against the TofE. I'm prepared to accept it as being largely correct as this is the consensus amongst those that do have the scientific knowledge.

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Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

I agree, however I have to admit that it is interesting that Genesis agrees that creation wasn't just a matter of poof and everything was in place, but that it was done in an evolutionary fashion even if the order doesn't agree.

I don't want to make anything much out of this. I'm just saying that the Genesis account is accurate in that everything wasn't all created at once.As I said, the main point is that it says we are created and that we have been given a moral code.

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Everybody is entitled to my opinion.