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Author Topic:   What is a soul?
2ice_baked_taters
Member (Idle past 5851 days)
Posts: 566
From: Boulder Junction WI.
Joined: 02-16-2006


Message 181 of 191 (377665)
01-17-2007 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by Kader
01-17-2007 10:55 AM


Re: loss brain == loss mind
Here is an example
This guy cut off his own arm, so add in all the trauma of having to cut your own arm to survive.
he didn't lose his mind.
Is my example satisfy you ? There are more (google...)
Satisfy me? as in somehow change my mind? Not hardly. Shall we google thousands of life changing events such as rape, war, loss of any number of abilities or central things to lives that people find they can not cope with. They find other ways and they become different people. I am not the same person I was 10 years ago. I have met many people who changed considerably over the course of time I knew them.
In the same breath...if you lose your legs, your ability to do many things relating to your legs will change who you are and what you can experience. My fathers frontal lobe was damaged by a 6cm hemorage. His ability to reason is directly affected. His thinking is slowed and takes great effort. His words get mixed. He has become a different person in many ways. I can still see him but some other can not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Kader, posted 01-17-2007 10:55 AM Kader has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by iceage, posted 01-17-2007 9:03 PM 2ice_baked_taters has replied

  
2ice_baked_taters
Member (Idle past 5851 days)
Posts: 566
From: Boulder Junction WI.
Joined: 02-16-2006


Message 182 of 191 (377666)
01-17-2007 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Kader
01-17-2007 10:50 AM


Re: loss brain == loss mind
Nop, your guess is certainly not as good as anyone elses. There are people studying in that specific field, and their guess far outweight yours.
There guess outweighs mine? In a question no one knows the answer to?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Kader, posted 01-17-2007 10:50 AM Kader has not replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 183 of 191 (377667)
01-17-2007 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by 2ice_baked_taters
01-17-2007 8:51 PM


Re: loss brain == loss mind
I am very sorry about your Father, 2ice.
I did not mean for this conversation to get personal.
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by 2ice_baked_taters, posted 01-17-2007 8:51 PM 2ice_baked_taters has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by 2ice_baked_taters, posted 01-17-2007 10:52 PM iceage has not replied

  
2ice_baked_taters
Member (Idle past 5851 days)
Posts: 566
From: Boulder Junction WI.
Joined: 02-16-2006


Message 184 of 191 (377672)
01-17-2007 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by iceage
01-17-2007 12:22 PM


Re: loss brain == loss mind
There is plenty of evidence
Evidence. Evidence is everywhere. The key factor here is evidence
of what? This entirely depends on how one views the evidence.
A person with a drug habbit can exhibit many personality characteristics that bring us to determine they "are not themselves" however, we understand it was "they" who "experienced" A drug habit is a physical trauma that affects the brain. It is life and personality altering sometimes permanently and ending in death. Alzheimers is no different in this respect.
We are not talking about guesses, but hard clinical facts. These changes are not just a loss of capability (ie inability to walk, or remember things) but a profound change in the personality of the person involved. Ask someone who works in a Nursing Home.
You are assuming that the ability to express onself is not an ability.
When you were younger your ability to express yourself emotionally was far less than it is now. It will continue to change. It's not magic. It's physical changes that allow you to do this. If these areas are damaged it will set you back or prevent you permanently from having those types of experiences. You may compensate for the loss in very different ways than we "normal" people would consider reasonable.
just research Traumatic Brain Injury or dementia.
I have had a number of first hand experinces. I don't need to google.
My father, 3 neighbors, A woman who was an adopted grandmother "if you will". A friend who died of a rare disease at 37. His last 3 months wer very hard. His wife was hurt and thought it was the disease affecting his brain, because he was mean and kept babbling divource shortly before he went.It broke her heart because he would insist and get violent. We later realized he was trying to free her of the 100,000 in medical expenses he knew would pile up. That poor son of a bitch tried his best to the bitter end. I miss that guy. A good person who died before his time.
We are not talking about guesses, but hard clinical facts. These changes are not just a loss of capability (ie inability to walk, or remember things) but a profound change in the personality of the person involved. Ask someone who works in a Nursing Home
I have first hand experience. That is why I understand that a fact is a fact but how it is interpreted is up to the individual.
A fact: WE DIE.....undisputed.........the question is....what about it? Everything after the basic fact is nothing but opinion and belief.
Are we our brains or are they just like another limb allowing us to to experience the world? No one has the answer. No facts support things either way.
The entire event changes and sometime dramatically before dying. How this "fits just fine" with the concept of a baseline soul you have not explained.
I am not clear where you see a problem.
Soul experiences and expresses: love, hate, yearning, surprise, humbling,joy, embarassment, rage, sorrow,
pitty, remorse... ect. I incorporate all new exerinces and grow in knowledge and understanding.
I am not these things I experience or the things others experience from me. This is my belief. It holds no more water than any other. I recognise that fact.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by iceage, posted 01-17-2007 12:22 PM iceage has not replied

  
2ice_baked_taters
Member (Idle past 5851 days)
Posts: 566
From: Boulder Junction WI.
Joined: 02-16-2006


Message 185 of 191 (377674)
01-17-2007 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by NosyNed
01-17-2007 12:39 PM


Re: Head Injury and personality shifts
We are the "persons" we are. Brain damage can kill that person.
We change throughout life. So where do you draw the line? Is there a line? I understand that no one knows. We have opinions based upon what we believe. You are welcome to yours. I am not against discussing. But to claim evidence suports your view simply becasue of how you choose to interpret it knowing full well there is no answer known? Ouch.
The above is your point of view based upon your belief/how you see the world.

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 Message 178 by NosyNed, posted 01-17-2007 12:39 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
2ice_baked_taters
Member (Idle past 5851 days)
Posts: 566
From: Boulder Junction WI.
Joined: 02-16-2006


Message 186 of 191 (377682)
01-17-2007 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by iceage
01-17-2007 9:03 PM


Re: loss brain == loss mind
Relax. I simply want you to understand I have a fair amount very real experience. I delt quite personally with each of these people. We can learn from clinical studies but we miss much. They lack in real human experience of the person. If I truly want to know about a particular case I would ask the family before I asked someone doing a study.
I will tell you I have first hand experience seeing someone go from being very "not themesleves" to understanding their plight and not being able to put it into words. You see it in their eyes. When ask them I have seen tears run down their faces. They are scared to death because the know what is happening.....then...poof! their gone again. The thought of it makes me weep. My neighbor across the street used to come over pushing his lawn mower. He and his wife were in their 80's She would lock him out of the house because she could not deal with him. Poor fellow would knock on the door "Help me, Please help! I'm not a crook." A proud man did the best he could when his wife pushed him away. I spent a lot of time taking him back home and babysitting the both of them because her hysteria about him would just freak him. He would go off and she would call him crazy to his face. I spent many days talking sense into her and calming him down. He was there to be experienced. The going was tough though. He responded to things as best he could with what he had left.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by iceage, posted 01-17-2007 9:03 PM iceage has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 187 of 191 (380809)
01-28-2007 9:53 PM


The soul
The soul is born when the Holy Spirit enters the body of the fetus at the exact moment of conception. At this time God considers this entity a human in progress. As it is. This connection with God through the Holy Spirit never ends. I may have used the wrong word in fetus but I am not sere if they give a name for such a small number of cells. Regardless God is there. This soul is the recording machine of all we are and upon death caries our essence to God.
Regards
DL

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-29-2007 5:32 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 188 of 191 (380844)
01-29-2007 5:32 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Greatest I am
01-28-2007 9:53 PM


Re: The soul
GIAM:
The soul is born when the Holy Spirit enters the body of the fetus at the exact moment of conception. At this time God considers this entity a human in progress. As it is. This connection with God through the Holy Spirit never ends. I may have used the wrong word in fetus but I am not sere if they give a name for such a small number of cells. Regardless God is there. This soul is the recording machine of all we are and upon death caries our essence to God.
A beautiful idea. My congratulations on working this out so clearly to your satisfaction.
Your suspicions are correct about the inappropriate wording, though. Here is the statement as it appears with correct terms employed.

The soul is born when the the spirit of Ishtar enters the egg at the exact moment of conception. At this time Marduk considers this entity a human in progress. As it is. This connection with Marduk through the spirit of Ishtar never ends. This soul is the recording machine of all we are and upon death caries our essence to Marduk.
Just as beautiful. Just as valid. And better biology.
___

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Greatest I am, posted 01-28-2007 9:53 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Greatest I am, posted 01-29-2007 2:22 PM Archer Opteryx has replied
 Message 191 by 2ice_baked_taters, posted 01-30-2007 12:52 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 189 of 191 (380967)
01-29-2007 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by Archer Opteryx
01-29-2007 5:32 AM


Re: The soul
I probably read of Marduk and Ishtar at some time in my life but I don't recall where, who are they.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-29-2007 5:32 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-29-2007 4:15 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 190 of 191 (381016)
01-29-2007 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Greatest I am
01-29-2007 2:22 PM


Re: The soul
Marduk and Ishtar are Assyro-Babylonion deities.
Maruk's most famous feat was battling Tiamat, a multi-headed sea dragon, at the beginning of the world. He scattered the beast's remains in celebration of his victory over the forces of chaos. The story is echoed in Psalm 74 with YHWH and Leviathan standing in for their Mesopotamian counterparts.
NRSV:

You divided the sea by your might;
you broke the heads of the dragons in the waters.
You crushed the heads of Leviathan;
you gave him as food for the creatures of the wilderness.
You cut openings for springs and torrents;
you dried up ever-flowing streams.
Yours is the day, yours also the night;
you established the luminaries and the sun.
You have fixed all the bounds of the earth;
you made summer and winter.
___
Edited by Archer Opterix, : detail.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Greatest I am, posted 01-29-2007 2:22 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
2ice_baked_taters
Member (Idle past 5851 days)
Posts: 566
From: Boulder Junction WI.
Joined: 02-16-2006


Message 191 of 191 (381161)
01-30-2007 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Archer Opteryx
01-29-2007 5:32 AM


Re: The soul
The soul is born when the the spirit of Ishtar enters the egg at the exact moment of conception. At this time Marduk considers this entity a human in progress. As it is. This connection with Marduk through the spirit of Ishtar never ends. This soul is the recording machine of all we are and upon death caries our essence to Marduk.
Just as beautiful. Just as valid. And better biology.
One clear distinction is a recognition of one God.
So there is the view that the soul is a tool or vessel that conveys our "essense"?
So an essense contained within a soul vessel carried by a body?
Interesting.
Edited by 2ice_baked_taters, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-29-2007 5:32 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
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