Morals without God or Darwin, just Empathy

Oh, okay then. But, if that's your point, I agree with you.Hitler thought some people were inferior to him. What was it you just said? Oh, here it is:

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I guess I have learned better than some, then.

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I see... so you think some people are inferior to you too.Recognizing the fact that people are different is not evil. Deciding to kill the different ones, yes... that is evil, and that is why Hitler was evil.I am not going to decide to start killing the different people. I am also not going to be afraid of stating facts such as "people are different". I am just like you, seeing that some people are different from me, and attempting to find the explanation that best fits the facts. So far, I do not see anything in my thoughts on morals that should be ringing alarm bells that I'm becoming Hitler....but thanks for keeping my guard up

But animals are what we are! We eat, shit and die the same as the rest of them despite our capacity for self-awareness.Furthermore, it takes a particularly violent and ruthless animal to repeatedly commit genocide in countless wars. Hitler didn't have to "reduce" men. All he had to do was to appeal to their baser instincts.

Sorry, mate. My pedantry chip was in overdrive. Message recieved and understood. Can't argue with that if you mean 'you' are at a point in life where you no longer need hard wired drives to act as behaviour drivers.I think we have reached an accord.

Substantiate this, please. Would it suprise you to learn that more rapes are carried through to completion when the victim displays submisive reactions that goad the rapist on? This indicates that the brain function is normal and the rapist makes a choice to inflict their self on another?It's in no way as cut and dried as you indicate.

This is in direct contradiction to your post to me.

No, I was being sarcastic. That is why I went on to blame my messed up parents for my 'superiority'. After all, they taught me, right? No, but you have said we recognize the fact that people are all the same.

Sure, you have said that we have things which tell us right from wrong. You have scientifically proved this. The Bible also said we have these things, and the writers did not have to go to behvioral science class to find out. I have not indicated anything. I have said that, according to you,we have survival instinct, intelligence, and empathy. You have said that those who feel no empathy are mal-functioning. You now say we choose to do wrong regardless of empathy, intelligence, or survival. In other words, if the brain is normal, the person is wrong. They are NOT mal-functioning. It is NOT some natural reaction. Get it? I agree it is not so cut-and-dried.Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.

My very next point was to be clear that I was talking about myself, and perhaps only even recently at that. I see people everyday who are still dependent on hard-wired drivers. Although I also see people who I believe also no longer need them. Thanks for not letting me get away with anything. I think I would have missed a few essential points otherwise.

No I did not say that. In fact, I said the exact opposite: "People are different".I did say that people are equal. But that, of course, is referring to their status as people and their rights and privileges.

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And yes, 'love thy neighbor' is preached in many ancient religious texts, way before any behavior science tried to claim it was survival instinct. No one has to preach survival as if they were driving a mule. We already have plenty of natural selfishness driving our survival, and plenty of intelligence to make it work.

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For the umpteenth time, ana, "Love thy neighbor" IS A PART OF SURVIVAL BEHABIOR, TOO!!!!!!!!!!!.Groups are far safer in a dangerous existence than individuals."Love thy neighbor" is a way for groups to remain cohesive by facilitating cooperation. "Do unto others", in other words.

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Sure, you have said that we have things which tell us right from wrong. You have scientifically proved this. The Bible also said we have these things, and the writers did not have to go to behvioral science class to find out.

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Yeah, and the answer the writers of the Bible give us is "Godidit."What now?How does that increase our understanding of anything at all?

The old testament is replete with examples and statements that demonstrate the ethic of reciprocity.However note the OT scoped this principle to only include those who could also scratch your back (ie thy people) This is the same "ethic" recognized my chimpanzee groups.Not very inspiring or out of context with the beginnings of other cultures.Also every major religion has this feature embedded into it's fabric. The bible is not unique.Another note is the earliest written example of the rudiments of this ethic predates the biblical reference by centuries. Look up Egyptian "The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant" (over 4k years old) which is a bit hard reading but worth the effort.

Rape is a crime about power. When the victim "goads" the rapist on, the rapist feels that he/she is getting the power from the act--the very power they committed the act in order to gain. If the rapist is resisted by the victim, it begins to cut into the amount of power and control that the rapist has over his/her "subject."Given what I've said--that rape is a power crime--it would make sense that a rapist (seeking power) would give up where he/she could not get that power and only follow through in the instances where he/she can. So, when a rapist decides to carry through with the act, he/she makes a logical decision based on what will get him/her the best result, i.e., more power. I fail to see any bit of empathetic feelings in a decision like this.J0N

Yup. And pacification guestures would increase the sense of power. To experience this sense of power one must 'know' that the victim is powerless. This requires empathy.'Goads' was an ill chosen word and not meant to indicate that the victim intentionally encourages the rape.Edited by Larni, : No reason given.

No I have not. Again, to reiterate: we learn right and wrong. No I have not. Yes it is. Thats why there is not reason to invoke a god.