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Author Topic:   The Blasphemy Challenge
Larni
Member
Posts: 3976
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 16 of 134 (381540)
01-31-2007 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by DorfMan
01-31-2007 10:51 AM


DorfMan writes:

Describe to me your idea of what a 'Christian' is. A Christian predator.

I'm sorry, was that a question?

If you would like to start a new OP I would be happy to join you there.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by DorfMan, posted 01-31-2007 10:51 AM DorfMan has not yet responded

    
nyenye
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 134 (381531)
01-31-2007 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Vacate
01-30-2007 8:51 AM


This guy looks like he's full of parasites, this is wrong... these kids are young, and they probably don't know what they want... Blah, although I don't believe mere words can damn you forever, this is just sick what is happening here... Eh, it's a "free country" right? Let 'em speak their twisted and destroyed minds.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Vacate, posted 01-30-2007 8:51 AM Vacate has responded

  
Doddy
Member (Idle past 4082 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 18 of 134 (381575)
01-31-2007 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Vacate
01-30-2007 10:19 PM


Vacate writes:

Does the free DvD show manipulation on the part of the challenge? Though I didn't mention the DvD, I will clarify by saying that is what I considered to be the crude method

I don't think so. It's just some silly competition, even if it does have an underlying agenda, and that how I think of it - as a competition. I've heard of cruder competitions, such as seeing who can hold your urine for the longest to get a Nintendo gaming console.


"Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
This message is a reply to:
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anastasia
Member (Idle past 4125 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 19 of 134 (381585)
01-31-2007 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by DorfMan
01-31-2007 10:44 AM


DorfMan writes:

Denying the Holy Spirit, the sin against the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin.

Why not say deny God or Jesus? Because they know denying the Holy Spirit is more effective. Has more exquisite consequences. I'd say they know exactly what they are doing.

Think about it carefully...have you ever heard a Christian say that blasphemy is unpardonable? Or that anything is unpardonable? The usual misunderstanding is that Christians get a free-pass for everything.

I am telling you that it is just quote-mining of the Bible without understanding anything of the meaning. If you can take an in-depth answer I will elaborate, but I hope you will trust me that I have no fear of hell over mere words, and no belief that God will condemn anyone based on a misunderstanding of scripture alone.


This message is a reply to:
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anastasia
Member (Idle past 4125 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 20 of 134 (381587)
01-31-2007 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by nator
01-30-2007 10:59 PM


nator writes:

So, how is this any different from indoctinating very young children into any given religious belief when they are far too young to understand what they are being taught to believe, or before they have the cognitive capability to truly examine those beliefs and freely choose them, or even if they will regret the time wasted in irrational belief in the future?

For one, it is not indoctrinating anything. It is a stupid dare with a reward. It is about as meaningless as making me deny the Flying Spaghetti Monster.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by nator, posted 01-30-2007 10:59 PM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
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Vacate
Member (Idle past 2773 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 21 of 134 (381621)
01-31-2007 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by nyenye
01-31-2007 4:03 PM


Nyeusigrube writes:

these kids are young, and they probably don't know what they want...

Did you see the one where the nine year old girl would like to paint nails for a living, give her a chance to tell people about the Lord while they listen to relaxing Christian music? People would just be able to accept...

If I looked long enough do you think I could find a 9 year old Muslim, Buddhist, or Jew?

this is wrong...

I agree.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by nyenye, posted 01-31-2007 4:03 PM nyenye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by nyenye, posted 02-01-2007 3:08 PM Vacate has not yet responded
 Message 23 by Doddy, posted 02-01-2007 7:03 PM Vacate has not yet responded

  
nyenye
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 134 (381667)
02-01-2007 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Vacate
01-31-2007 11:02 PM


Sorry I haven't seen the one with the child wanting to paint nails... if you could show me that would be cool.... :(
This message is a reply to:
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Doddy
Member (Idle past 4082 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 23 of 134 (381715)
02-01-2007 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Vacate
01-31-2007 11:02 PM


nine year old girl

That's not right. There should be an age limit. At 9, you can't know what you believe. No child can be an 'atheist child', 'Muslim child', 'Christan child', 'Mormon child' etc, because they don't have the maturity to make up their mind.

The competition should have had an age limit.


"Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Asgara
Member (Idle past 475 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 24 of 134 (381720)
02-01-2007 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Doddy
02-01-2007 7:03 PM


The Challenge did NOT use a nine year old girl. The girl referred to is from the O'Reilly parody in the last link from the OP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVRbMfh52Ts&NR


This message is a reply to:
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nator
Member (Idle past 342 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 25 of 134 (382480)
02-04-2007 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by anastasia
01-31-2007 6:33 PM


quote:
Two, several of the participants are much too young to even understand what they are blaspheming against, or whether they will ever regret it in the future.

So, how is this any different from indoctinating very young children into any given religious belief when they are far too young to understand what they are being taught to believe, or before they have the cognitive capability to truly examine those beliefs and freely choose them, or even if they will regret the time wasted in irrational belief in the future?

quote:
For one, it is not indoctrinating anything. It is a stupid dare with a reward. It is about as meaningless as making me deny the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Right.

So, you do realize that you just contradicted your initial argument with this second one?

At first, you object to very young children being presented with the Blasphemy Challenge, because they don't "...even understand what they are blaspheming against, or whether they will ever regret it in the future."

But now, after I have essentially pointed out that this "Challenge" pales in comparison to the brainwashing most religions inflict upon very young children who are not old enough to "...even understand what they are blaspheming against, or whether they will ever regret it in the future.", you say it is merely a "stupid dare" and "meaningless".

Well, which is it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by anastasia, posted 01-31-2007 6:33 PM anastasia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by anastasia, posted 02-04-2007 11:56 PM nator has responded

    
anastasia
Member (Idle past 4125 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 26 of 134 (382495)
02-04-2007 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by nator
02-04-2007 10:59 PM


Well, first off, teaching someone about a faith is not the same thing as daring them to 'blaspheme' something else. I, at least, did not have mockery of other religions as part of my religious training.

But more to the point, you will notice that when I said this;

anastasia writes:


Two, several of the participants are much too young to even understand what they are blaspheming against, or whether they will ever regret it in the future.

It was only a GUESS about why a Fox commentator may have stated 'this makes me sick'. The question had been asked of me in the previous post.

When I said this;

For one, it is not indoctrinating anything. It is a stupid dare with a reward. It is about as meaningless as making me deny the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

It was MY feelings on the matter. Again, the folks behind this challenge are quote-mining the Bible and putting forth this 'unforgiveable sin' that no christian has ever heard of.

Atheism, if it wants to deny God, has much more ground to cover than just the christian variations. It is rather lovely that this group sees christianity as its main threat...and making such statements as 'this challenge will end when christianity ends' turns atheism to a hate-mongering religion of its own, and will probably only fire more zeal in the hearts of christians.

Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.

Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by nator, posted 02-04-2007 10:59 PM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 12:56 AM anastasia has responded
 Message 28 by nator, posted 02-05-2007 9:16 AM anastasia has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16681
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 27 of 134 (382508)
02-05-2007 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by anastasia
02-04-2007 11:56 PM


anastasia writes:

I, at least, did not have mockery of other religions as part of my religious training.

It's really very common. I was brought up in a pretty anti-Catholic environment. You might notice the remnants of that training once in a while. ;)

... such statements as 'this challenge will end when christianity ends' turns atheism to a hate-mongering religion of its own....

I'm not convinced that intellectual attempts to end an ideology constitute "hate-mongering".

... and will probably only fire more zeal in the hearts of christians.

That's not a very good source of zeal.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by anastasia, posted 02-04-2007 11:56 PM anastasia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 2:18 PM ringo has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 342 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 28 of 134 (382572)
02-05-2007 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by anastasia
02-04-2007 11:56 PM


Well, OK, but the point I was making, and still remains, is that using the issue of children being "too young to understand what they are blaspheming against and if they might regret their actions later in life" works both ways.

quote:
I, at least, did not have mockery of other religions as part of my religious training.

Then you are rare.

On the other hand, you probably learned to pity those who don't believe as you do, which is just a softer, less agressive form of mockery.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by anastasia, posted 02-04-2007 11:56 PM anastasia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 2:30 PM nator has responded

    
anastasia
Member (Idle past 4125 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 29 of 134 (382616)
02-05-2007 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by ringo
02-05-2007 12:56 AM


Ringo writes:

I'm not convinced that intellectual attempts to end an ideology constitute "hate-mongering".

Intellectual? You must be kidding. It's just a bunch of mall-rats and rock-star wanna-bes. Been to Hot Topic lately? Christianity, especially Catholicism, sells.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 12:56 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 2:40 PM anastasia has responded

    
anastasia
Member (Idle past 4125 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 30 of 134 (382619)
02-05-2007 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by nator
02-05-2007 9:16 AM


nator writes:

Well, OK, but the point I was making, and still remains, is that using the issue of children being "too young to understand what they are blaspheming against and if they might regret their actions later in life" works both ways.

So, how does one blaspheme against the gods of atheism? I really wouldn't worry too much. We all have time to un-believe, and if we don't, we haven't missed much. It takes a life-time to reach even a tenth of the perfection christianity asks of us, and only one moment to give it up. And it is not really challenging to teach atheism. Most so called 'christian' parents are doing a fine job of that already.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by nator, posted 02-05-2007 9:16 AM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
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