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Author Topic:   Is Science a Religion?
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1253 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 61 of 313 (381730)
02-01-2007 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by RAZD
01-31-2007 9:27 PM


Re: Religious Leader?
How can one know the rules that govern his religion without contacting an expert in that religion. Did you know that every religion has at least one law that is not easily explained. For example, almost every religion limits the foods which one is allowed to eat. To be part of any religion you can't just act with your common sense. If you do, how do you know what you are allowed to eat and what you are not allowed to eat? To answer your question about deists, they are part of a religion which does not believe in any religious leaders or religious laws. There religion requires one to act based on their own will. Science can be considered a religion that closely resembles the religion of the deists. To answer your last question, religious leaders go through many years of intense training under other religious leaders who carry the long lasting tradition. Every religious leader is required to be well versed in his own religion and he is then able to pass on the tradition to the next generation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by RAZD, posted 01-31-2007 9:27 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by jar, posted 02-01-2007 8:59 PM Open MInd has replied
 Message 77 by RAZD, posted 02-01-2007 9:46 PM Open MInd has replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 313 (381731)
02-01-2007 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Open MInd
02-01-2007 8:37 PM


Re: Why must the teapot be a religion, anyway?
quote:
How does this supernatural being control the world which is completely governed by natural laws?
You still don't understand what science is, Open MInd. The world is not governed by "natural laws", nor does science say any such thing. What we call "natural laws" are descriptions of how the universe behaves as far as we have observed so far. We already acknowledge that we may observe phenomena that will behave differently than we expect, that will "violate natural law". In that case, science will admit that the previous description of the universe was wrong and try to come up with a new description that will take into account the new phenomenon.
-
quote:
? What if you threw your pen to the floor and this supernatural being did not wish it to fall? Using scientific principles, how can this task be accomplished.
I would suppose that a supernatural being would not use scientific principles to accomplish this.
-
quote:
Scientific principles would never allow for any supernatural being to ever take control of the natural course of events.
How would "scientific principles" prevent a supernatural being from "taking control" of the natural course of events?
-
quote:
Therefore, science does not fit in with any religion and it must be its own religion.
Come to think of it, you don't seem to understand what "religion" is, either. So far, even your incorrect descriptions of science do not fit into the definition of religion.

This world can take my money and time/ But it sure can't take my soul. -- Joe Ely

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Open MInd, posted 02-01-2007 8:37 PM Open MInd has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 63 of 313 (381732)
02-01-2007 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Open MInd
02-01-2007 8:53 PM


There is no conflict between Christianity and Science
Repeat after me.

There is NO conflict between Science and Christianity, between the Theory of Evolution and Christianity or the Old Universe and Christianity.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Open MInd, posted 02-01-2007 8:53 PM Open MInd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by subbie, posted 02-01-2007 9:12 PM jar has not replied
 Message 68 by Open MInd, posted 02-01-2007 9:40 PM jar has replied

subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 64 of 313 (381733)
02-01-2007 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Open MInd
02-01-2007 8:37 PM


Re: Why must the teapot be a religion, anyway?
Your name was certainly very ill-conceived. Your mind is the most closed mind I've come across at this site, and that's saying a lot.
You've come to your own conclusions about how the world must work based on your personal religious beliefs. You are no more here to explore questions and seek answers than than I am here to learn the Texas Two-Step.
You are here to spout your irrational notions and ignore anything anyone says of substance. In all the people I have come across in my life, you are the first one to even suggest, much less apparently actually believe, that there is no regularity in the world, no laws that govern anything, and that all things happen only by dint of the will of god making it happen.
The only real mystery that remains is, why you are doing this?

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Open MInd, posted 02-01-2007 8:37 PM Open MInd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Open MInd, posted 02-01-2007 9:59 PM subbie has replied

nyenye
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 313 (381735)
02-01-2007 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Open MInd
01-26-2007 10:55 AM


If science has no deity it is not a religion... Science is just a way of thinking o_o

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Open MInd, posted 01-26-2007 10:55 AM Open MInd has not replied

subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 66 of 313 (381742)
02-01-2007 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by jar
02-01-2007 8:59 PM


Re: There is no conflict between Christianity and Science
The problem with your message, jar, is that OpenMInd isn't talking about christianity. And we are completely powerless to convince him that science and religion are incompatible, because science and his religion are incompatible. He takes the ole "goddidit" explanation to its ultimate length. Everything that happens happens because god made it happen. Thus, any search for regularity in the world is futile. Any regularities are not the result of natural forces at work that we can understand. They are simply the result of god being stuck in a rut. Apparently god can't think of anything else to do with a pen thrown to the floor other than to make it continue its journey. However, at any time he might change his mind and instead make it fly out the window like some super-charged Uri Gellar.
He is either unable to comprehend that virtually everyone else in the world doesn't see it that way, or he doesn't care. His god is one of very limited powers. His god is apparently unable to create a world with regularities that we can learn about and use to our benefit. His mind may be open, in some Orwellian sense, but (as I suggested to you in chat the other day regarding someone else) his mind isn't big enough to conceive of a god that can create a regular universe and then let it run as he has set it up.
Quite curious indeed.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by jar, posted 02-01-2007 8:59 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Open MInd, posted 02-01-2007 9:45 PM subbie has not replied

Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1253 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 67 of 313 (381756)
02-01-2007 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Chiroptera
01-31-2007 9:01 PM


Re: A force is not a cause.
If you are correct in your description of gravity, I would agree that it is not in anyway a religious concept. However, scientist don’t say that the cause of gravity is unknown. Rather, they say that anything of mass will have a built in attractive force. They attribute the force to the mass of the object and reject the possibility of any outside force.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Chiroptera, posted 01-31-2007 9:01 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Chiroptera, posted 02-01-2007 9:13 PM Open MInd has not replied

Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1253 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 68 of 313 (381763)
02-01-2007 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by jar
02-01-2007 8:59 PM


Re: There is no conflict between Christianity and Science
First of all I don't know why you consider me a Christian. I never told anyone on this board what I believe in. I may truly be a scientist. Secondly, I am not coming to defend the Christian faith or dIspute it. All I do know is, there are many different oppinions in the Christian faith, and I did not see anything in your quote that resolves science with any other religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by jar, posted 02-01-2007 8:59 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by jar, posted 02-01-2007 9:45 PM Open MInd has replied

Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1253 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 69 of 313 (381766)
02-01-2007 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by subbie
02-01-2007 9:12 PM


Re: There is no conflict between Christianity and Science
I agree that there are regularities in the world. The question is why? Scientist believe that the nature of the world is to have inborn forces. Other religions can claim that the order in the world is brought about by the creator and he continuously keeps the regularities of the world in existence to keep the world exactly the way he wants it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by subbie, posted 02-01-2007 9:12 PM subbie has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 70 of 313 (381767)
02-01-2007 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Open MInd
02-01-2007 9:40 PM


Re: There is no conflict between Christianity and Science
First of all I don't know why you consider me a Christian. I never told anyone on this board what I believe in. I may truly be a scientist. Secondly, I am not coming to defend the Christian faith or dIspute it. All I do know is, there are many different oppinions in the Christian faith, and I did not see anything in your quote that resolves science with any other religion.
Too funny. The old dancing Gish Gallop.
It does not matter what religion (if any) you are. It's patently obvious that you know nothing about science and even less about Christianity at the least.
How ever there is NOTHING in Science that conflicts with any religion.
You've been told this many times.
Science does not address the supernatural.
It really is as simple as that.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Open MInd, posted 02-01-2007 9:40 PM Open MInd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Open MInd, posted 02-01-2007 9:53 PM jar has replied

Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1253 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 71 of 313 (381774)
02-01-2007 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by jar
02-01-2007 9:45 PM


Re: There is no conflict between Christianity and Science
You have just simply ignored all of my points. You seem to think that a religion requires a supernatural being. This is not true. You seem to think that science has not made up anything; however, I have already showed you how the gravitational "force" is a completely made up concept. The idea that anything with a mass carries an attractive force sounds as supernatural as any other religious belief.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by jar, posted 02-01-2007 9:45 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by jar, posted 02-01-2007 9:57 PM Open MInd has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 72 of 313 (381777)
02-01-2007 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Open MInd
02-01-2007 9:53 PM


Re: There is no conflict between Christianity and Science
You have just simply ignored all of my points. You seem to think that a religion requires a supernatural being. This is not true. You seem to think that science has not made up anything; however, I have already showed you how the gravitational "force" is a completely made up concept. The idea that anything with a mass carries an attractive force sounds as supernatural as any other religious belief.
And you have also been told that is just ONE current explanation for Gravity and even those are held tentatively.
It has also been shown that it is NOT something made up but rather simply a description of what is observed.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Open MInd, posted 02-01-2007 9:53 PM Open MInd has not replied

Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1253 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 73 of 313 (381780)
02-01-2007 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by subbie
02-01-2007 9:01 PM


Re: Why must the teapot be a religion, anyway?
I am simply debating a topic and most of the people on this board are just throwing around insults. To address your post, you say that I do not have an open mind. In fact you claim that I have the most closed mind on this site. However, it takes two people to argue. If you do not agree with me then your mind is just as closed to my side of the argument.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by subbie, posted 02-01-2007 9:01 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by subbie, posted 02-01-2007 9:05 PM Open MInd has not replied

subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 74 of 313 (381734)
02-01-2007 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Open MInd
02-01-2007 9:59 PM


Re: Why must the teapot be a religion, anyway?
Actually, I think I've given your "ideas" more respect than anyone else here. I've read what you said and responded with reasoning, which is certainly more than you've done. You simply keep repeating the same thing over and over. You repeat the same mistakes about what science actually does, displaying an apparent inability to comprehend the explanations that several people have given you.
Science looks for positive evidence to support a proposal. It offers explantions that are either rejected or tentatively accepted based on actual evidence. The acceptance is always tentative pending the discovery of new evidence.
You suggest that it's just god doing it all. Science places no weight in such a suggestion, not because it's biased against religion, or because it's a religion itself, but because there's no evidence. However, because there's no evidence against such a proposal, science doesn't rule it out, either.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Open MInd, posted 02-01-2007 9:59 PM Open MInd has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 75 of 313 (381746)
02-01-2007 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Open MInd
02-01-2007 9:33 PM


Re: A force is not a cause.
quote:
If you are correct in your description of gravity, I would agree that it is not in anyway a religious concept.
And I will repeat that your example of "little spirits" is also not a religious concept.
-
quote:
Rather, they say that anything of mass will have a built in attractive force.
Objects attract each other. Some objects attract each other more than others. Those to which other bodies are attracted more strongly are said to have more mass. Mass is simply a description of how much other bodies are attracted to each other.
Force is simply the fact that bodies will move together. Mass is just the fact that some bodies will move together more strongly than others.
-
quote:
They attribute the force to the mass of the object and reject the possibility of any outside force.
"Outside forces" make no sense in this context. There is only a force without any regard as to "where" it comes from or what "causes" it. And force is just the acknowledgment that bodies will move together.

This world can take my money and time/ But it sure can't take my soul. -- Joe Ely

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Open MInd, posted 02-01-2007 9:33 PM Open MInd has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by kuresu, posted 02-01-2007 9:19 PM Chiroptera has replied

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